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The argument of Frieza>Base Saiyans.
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Topic Started: May 27 2014, 08:33 AM (4,447 Views)
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+ Clearin
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May 27 2014, 10:44 PM
Post #61
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- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:39 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:31 PM
- Naked Snake
- May 27 2014, 10:29 PM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 10:25 PM
And instead of proving him wrong, he just accepts it and powers up to SSJ to disprove him.
SSJ > Frieza > Base
Why would he waste his time powering up to prove Bills wrong when Bills is monstrously stronger than anyone he's ever faced before? He wanted to fight, he got more satisfaction from powering up and charging into battle instead of proving somebody wrong. No real issue there.
Wait a second, did King Kai actually say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before? Somewhat off topic, but if this is true, then when Goku says SSj3 might be too much for Beerus is he basically saying SSj2 Goku > Kid Buu?
That's over analyzing a DragonBall Movie. Over analyzing? That doesn't even come close. If King Kai did say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before (turns out he didn't...kinda?) then logically that would include Kid Buu, and if Goku thinks he wouldn't need SSj3 to beat someone stronger than Kid Buu, then SSj2 Goku would be stronger than Kid Buu. Seriously how is that over analyzing? It's basic logic.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 27 2014, 10:46 PM
Post #62
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- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:44 PM
- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:39 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:31 PM
- Naked Snake
- May 27 2014, 10:29 PM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 10:25 PM
And instead of proving him wrong, he just accepts it and powers up to SSJ to disprove him.
SSJ > Frieza > Base
Why would he waste his time powering up to prove Bills wrong when Bills is monstrously stronger than anyone he's ever faced before? He wanted to fight, he got more satisfaction from powering up and charging into battle instead of proving somebody wrong. No real issue there.
Wait a second, did King Kai actually say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before? Somewhat off topic, but if this is true, then when Goku says SSj3 might be too much for Beerus is he basically saying SSj2 Goku > Kid Buu?
That's over analyzing a DragonBall Movie.
Over analyzing? That doesn't even come close. If King Kai did say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before (turns out he didn't...kinda?) then logically that would include Kid Buu, and if Goku thinks he wouldn't need SSj3 to beat someone stronger than Kid Buu, then SSj2 Goku would be stronger than Kid Buu. Seriously how is that over analyzing? It's basic logic. That just means after he defeated Boo, Goku got over confident & thought no1 enemy can beat him.
Nothing else.
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+ Clearin
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May 27 2014, 10:48 PM
Post #63
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- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:46 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:44 PM
- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:39 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:31 PM
- Naked Snake
- May 27 2014, 10:29 PM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 10:25 PM
And instead of proving him wrong, he just accepts it and powers up to SSJ to disprove him.
SSJ > Frieza > Base
Why would he waste his time powering up to prove Bills wrong when Bills is monstrously stronger than anyone he's ever faced before? He wanted to fight, he got more satisfaction from powering up and charging into battle instead of proving somebody wrong. No real issue there.
Wait a second, did King Kai actually say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before? Somewhat off topic, but if this is true, then when Goku says SSj3 might be too much for Beerus is he basically saying SSj2 Goku > Kid Buu?
That's over analyzing a DragonBall Movie.
Over analyzing? That doesn't even come close. If King Kai did say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before (turns out he didn't...kinda?) then logically that would include Kid Buu, and if Goku thinks he wouldn't need SSj3 to beat someone stronger than Kid Buu, then SSj2 Goku would be stronger than Kid Buu. Seriously how is that over analyzing? It's basic logic.
That just means after he defeated Boo, Goku got over confident & thought no1 enemy can beat him. Nothing else. No, that's under-analyzing it. Goku might be overconfident but he's not mentally brain damaged to the point where after being told Beerus is stronger than anyone he fought before, he wouldn't realise that if he wasn't stronger than all past enemies at SSj2 then he's not going to beat Beerus a Super Saiyan 2.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 27 2014, 10:56 PM
Post #64
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- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:48 PM
- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:46 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:44 PM
- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:39 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:31 PM
- Naked Snake
- May 27 2014, 10:29 PM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 10:25 PM
And instead of proving him wrong, he just accepts it and powers up to SSJ to disprove him.
SSJ > Frieza > Base
Why would he waste his time powering up to prove Bills wrong when Bills is monstrously stronger than anyone he's ever faced before? He wanted to fight, he got more satisfaction from powering up and charging into battle instead of proving somebody wrong. No real issue there.
Wait a second, did King Kai actually say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before? Somewhat off topic, but if this is true, then when Goku says SSj3 might be too much for Beerus is he basically saying SSj2 Goku > Kid Buu?
That's over analyzing a DragonBall Movie.
Over analyzing? That doesn't even come close. If King Kai did say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before (turns out he didn't...kinda?) then logically that would include Kid Buu, and if Goku thinks he wouldn't need SSj3 to beat someone stronger than Kid Buu, then SSj2 Goku would be stronger than Kid Buu. Seriously how is that over analyzing? It's basic logic.
That just means after he defeated Boo, Goku got over confident & thought no1 enemy can beat him. Nothing else.
No, that's under-analyzing it. Goku might be overconfident but he's not mentally brain damaged to the point where after being told Beerus is stronger than anyone he fought before, he wouldn't realise that if he wasn't stronger than all past enemies at SSj2 then he's not going to beat Beerus a Super Saiyan 2. So when children from japan watched the movie, they thought OMG! Goku can beat Kid-Boo without Super-Saiyan 3 now, right?
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+ Clearin
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May 27 2014, 11:05 PM
Post #65
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- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:56 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:48 PM
- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:46 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:44 PM
- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 10:39 PM
- Clearin
- May 27 2014, 10:31 PM
- Naked Snake
- May 27 2014, 10:29 PM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 10:25 PM
And instead of proving him wrong, he just accepts it and powers up to SSJ to disprove him.
SSJ > Frieza > Base
Why would he waste his time powering up to prove Bills wrong when Bills is monstrously stronger than anyone he's ever faced before? He wanted to fight, he got more satisfaction from powering up and charging into battle instead of proving somebody wrong. No real issue there.
Wait a second, did King Kai actually say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before? Somewhat off topic, but if this is true, then when Goku says SSj3 might be too much for Beerus is he basically saying SSj2 Goku > Kid Buu?
That's over analyzing a DragonBall Movie.
Over analyzing? That doesn't even come close. If King Kai did say Beerus was stronger than anyone Goku faced before (turns out he didn't...kinda?) then logically that would include Kid Buu, and if Goku thinks he wouldn't need SSj3 to beat someone stronger than Kid Buu, then SSj2 Goku would be stronger than Kid Buu. Seriously how is that over analyzing? It's basic logic.
That just means after he defeated Boo, Goku got over confident & thought no1 enemy can beat him. Nothing else.
No, that's under-analyzing it. Goku might be overconfident but he's not mentally brain damaged to the point where after being told Beerus is stronger than anyone he fought before, he wouldn't realise that if he wasn't stronger than all past enemies at SSj2 then he's not going to beat Beerus a Super Saiyan 2.
So when children from japan watched the movie, they thought OMG! Goku can beat Kid-Boo without Super-Saiyan 3 now, right? As a child I thought Kid Buu was stronger than Super Buu because it takes connecting logic to actually figure out which is stronger, even if it's obvious, whereas if you ignore the past episodes and focus only on the present Kid Buu being stronger isn't a problem (and is even a thing in the anime). Would you say someone who knows Super Buu is over analyzing the show, or that they just put an iota of thought into the stated lines? It's not over analyzing if you're literally just putting 2 and 2 together.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 27 2014, 11:09 PM
Post #66
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"It takes connecting logic?" LOL It was outright stated that Kid-Boo is stronger than Super-Boo in the anime, so no.
...& yes it is over analyzing a kids manga/movie. When the children watched the movie they probably just thought that Goku got really over-confident over the years due to having defeated the greatest threat to earth not that he is somehow stronger than Kid-Boo now without Super-Saiyan 3.
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+ Clearin
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May 27 2014, 11:13 PM
Post #67
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- StrawHatCrew
- May 27 2014, 11:09 PM
"It takes connecting logic?" LOL It was outright stated that Kid-Boo is stronger than Super-Boo in the anime, so no.
...& yes it is over analyzing a kids manga/movie. When the children watch the movie they probably just thought that Goku got really over-confident over the years due to having defeated the greatest threat to earth. I said connecting logic to know Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu, not that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu... Not complicated connecting logic, but there's no line in the Manga or Anime that is as simple as "Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu", you have to work it out by knowing Gotenks is stronger than Goku, then from there Super Buu is equal to Gotenks and Kid Buu is equal to Goku. It's simple as heck when you're actually looking at these quotes and not just watching the show one episode each week.
And no, it isn't over analyzing. If that's over analyzing then so is figuring out base Saiyans are stronger than Freeza, because it requires the task of putting together Kaioshins "I can beat Freeza with one blow" line and the lines about base Saiyans being stronger than Kaioshin. Figuring out that two lines create a new bit of information is just common sense, not over analyzing.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 27 2014, 11:16 PM
Post #68
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Both the Base Saiyans/Freeza & Super-Boo thing are made clear as day in the Manga, whereas Goku asking Beerus whether he should power down is probably just him being over-confident. Even the way Goku talked & the way they showed the scene it kind of implied how Goku has gotten over-confident over the years.
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sekzee
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May 27 2014, 11:21 PM
Post #69
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Why would Goku be overconfident about defeating someone who is not only stronger than Gotenks but Gohan as well?
We all know Ultimate Gohan >> SSJ3 Gotenks >>>>>>> SSJ3 Goku. This guy is the most incredible in their universe.
Edited by sekzee, May 27 2014, 11:22 PM.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 27 2014, 11:24 PM
Post #70
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- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 11:21 PM
Why would Goku be overconfident about defeating someone who is not only stronger than Gotenks but Gohan as well?
We all know Ultimate Gohan >> SSJ3 Gotenks >>>>>>> SSJ3 Goku. This guy is the most incredibly in [their] universe. 1st of Goku already knows them & knows that they are stronger than them. A new villain however is not the same, Goku probably thought after defeating Boo that no villain ever could come even close to him, but then Beerus did.
A good lesson for Goku if you ask me that there is always someone stronger than you.
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sekzee
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May 27 2014, 11:34 PM
Post #71
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But Goku already knew that.
Nice copout.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 27 2014, 11:36 PM
Post #72
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- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 11:34 PM
But Goku already knew that.
Nice copout. eh... what did he know?
...also ur attitude is bothering me
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Vertical
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May 28 2014, 12:02 AM
Post #73
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- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 11:21 PM
Goku probably thought after defeating Boo that no villain ever could come even close to him, but then Beerus did.
A good lesson for Goku if you ask me that there is always someone stronger than you. During Pre-Raditz Dragon Ball, Kame-senin attempted to drive home this point as much as possible to avoid Goku (or any of his students) becoming lethargic and accepting themselves as the strongest. He went to great lengths... the Jackie Chun disguise... asking Tien to take his place... but once Goku defeated Piccolo Jr, settled down, raised a family... he did exactly that.
5 years passed and no one could challenge Goku... but then Raditz appeared. That was the moment he learnt that there is always someone stronger and his attitude towards constant improvement was solidified. Not once from that moment on does Goku stop attempting to improve himself.
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StrawHatCrew
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May 28 2014, 12:03 AM
Post #74
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- Vertical
- May 28 2014, 12:02 AM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 11:21 PM
Goku probably thought after defeating Boo that no villain ever could come even close to him, but then Beerus did.
A good lesson for Goku if you ask me that there is always someone stronger than you.
During Pre-Raditz Dragon Ball, Kame-senin attempted to drive home this point as much as possible to avoid Goku (or any of his students) becoming lethargic and accepting themselves as the strongest. He went to great lengths... the Jackie Chun disguise... asking Tien to take his place... but once Goku defeated Piccolo Jr, settled down, raised a family... he did exactly that. 5 years passed and no one could challenge Goku... but then Raditz appeared. That was the moment he learnt that there is always someone stronger and his attitude towards constant improvement was solidified. Not once from that moment on does Goku stop attempting to improve himself. I never said he tried to not improve himself just that he got more confident after having defeated Boo. You can see that if you look at the scene & the way he talks got way over-confident.
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Vertical
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May 28 2014, 12:08 AM
Post #75
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- StrawHatCrew
- May 28 2014, 12:03 AM
- Vertical
- May 28 2014, 12:02 AM
- sekzee
- May 27 2014, 11:21 PM
Goku probably thought after defeating Boo that no villain ever could come even close to him, but then Beerus did.
A good lesson for Goku if you ask me that there is always someone stronger than you.
During Pre-Raditz Dragon Ball, Kame-senin attempted to drive home this point as much as possible to avoid Goku (or any of his students) becoming lethargic and accepting themselves as the strongest. He went to great lengths... the Jackie Chun disguise... asking Tien to take his place... but once Goku defeated Piccolo Jr, settled down, raised a family... he did exactly that. 5 years passed and no one could challenge Goku... but then Raditz appeared. That was the moment he learnt that there is always someone stronger and his attitude towards constant improvement was solidified. Not once from that moment on does Goku stop attempting to improve himself.
I never said he tried to not improve himself just that he got more confident after having defeated Boo. You can see that if you look at the scene & the way he talks got way over-confident. And if his SSJ2 at that point was far beyond the strongest opponent he had ever faced... there'd be no reason not to be.
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