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The argument of Frieza>Base Saiyans.
Topic Started: May 27 2014, 08:33 AM (4,449 Views)
sekzee
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I rather not make an excuse for AT in that case.

EDIT:

Quote:
 
Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P6.5, P7.2, P8.2-3
Elder Kaioshin: “That’s ri~~~ight. Lo~~~ong, lo~~~ong ago, there was this ridiculously strong and ba~~~ad dude. Well, he wasn’t as bad as this Majin Boo guy now, but still~~~. He did it, he se~~~ealed me away inside that sword. Me here. He was freaked out by how fearsome I am. Yep, sure wa~~~as.”


Problem #1:

Elder Kaioshin is comparing Beerus to Fat Buu. Fat Buu > Beerus (LOL)

Problem #2:

Buu was recently stated to have existed since the beginning of time, yet Elder Kaioshin did not know of Buu's pure, original form.

Reconciliation #1:

If Beerus was in fact weaker than Fat Buu (at any point in time), then it makes sense that he would want to lock Elder Kaioshin away due to his ability since we did witness several mortals surpassing Fat Buu in strength. In my opinion, this is still a ridiculous notion since even Ultimate Gohan was no match for Beerus.
Edited by sekzee, May 27 2014, 05:28 PM.
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Alex D. Boss
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I don't care about the BOG statement. Neither about the arguments. I won't ignore what is given.
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Saberoph
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Wow 3 pages.. impressive.

Still going by technicalities, for one to consider BOG canon then the Movies and GT would have to be canon since AT worked directly with AT and since AT's Movie is Directed by TOEI who did the Movies and GT and AT worked on GT too so going by the logic of BOG being canon then GT is too... this cannot be ignored.

Another thing to think about is the fact that the director of AT's Movie has been very well known of constantly contradicting it's self many times over and their logic not adding up, which would bring serious question into the Movie being Canon or not.

We all know unless something is officially canon then it's not... so, unless it's been made official then BOG cannot be canon... unless now we're ignoring what's official and what's not just to get around this argument, which would be on the line of trolling.

Also, just because AT did writing on it doesn't make it 100% reliable, AT's writing in the Boo arc wasn't very reliable and yet that arc is accepted. AT's work does not line up with his already established continuity... which would make BOG unreliable... since that is how things work around here, until certain arguments are jeopardy then all of a sudden it's worked around instead of proving it wrong.


Now, I'll ask my question again and since this is the write Thread I trust it won't be worked around to be gotten out of the argument. If BOG doesn't become officially canon what then?

Now, I realize this makes be look like a d***, but I'm pretty much over seeing people using copouts, working around, backing out, or double standards to get out of their own arguments... and it's really something that needs to stop.

The people who do it are very lucky I'm not a MOD because I would seriously crack down on that crap and it would come to a stop.
Edited by Saberoph, May 27 2014, 07:00 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Alex D. Boss
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Wait.. U find 3 pages impressive?
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+ Pyrus
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I lovehate to be the Angel of Death here, but there isn't truly an "official canon" in the series, I don't think. Neither Toriyama or Toei have come out and said, "This is what actually happened and the rest is just for fun and doesn't really count." Toriyama has given some implications, such as considering the movies to be in a separate universe from the manga, and GT to be a nice "side story," but that's about it. We fans have simply taken it upon ourselves to conjure up the mechanisms regarding canon here.

GT had some of its initial ideas and concept art given by Toriyama, but to my knowledge he wasn't actively involved in the series. He basically did various art designs for the movies.

He had a lot more involvement with this movie, as you can probably tell.
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Saberoph
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Alex KloonBoss
May 27 2014, 07:00 PM
Wait.. U find 3 pages impressive?
Considering this argument and how I presented my OP.

@KP. But that still doesn't get around the double standards on that subject.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Master Saberoph
May 27 2014, 07:02 PM
Alex KloonBoss
May 27 2014, 07:00 PM
Wait.. U find 3 pages impressive?
Considering this argument and how I presented my OP.

@KP. But that still doesn't get around the double standards on that subject.
Doesn't it? He's actively involved in one and not the others. He considers one an actual continuation of his original comic, but not the others.
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Saberoph
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True, but by technically that would make GT the same because it's based off something that's a more or less direct adaptation of his very own work. And weather or not he actively worked on GT or not, he did technically work on GT, so the same argument can be made for it too.

Edit: I just realized how much this argument is like the Goten and Trunks arguments... now thinking about it this may be one of those never ending debates that will go on until AT goes on record and says what is canon and what isn't, which is something I fear he may never do.

But, for a second if AT meant BOG to be the right thing, it would make power levels a lot easier to make.
Edited by Saberoph, May 27 2014, 07:23 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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sekzee
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Are you comparing a <10% effort vs. >90% effort on AT's behalf?

I mean, that sums his involvement in GT and his involvement in BOG.

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Saberoph
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That was a very sarcastic technically comment... I can't believe nobody got that yet.

I know I can be an a*****, but I find it hard to believe nobody thought it was a little hard for me to be that much of a d*** over a technical comment.

However, I do find this argument very interesting and think this does add more mystery to what's right and what isn't.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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sekzee
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That was sarcasm?
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Mihawk
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These are my thoughts on the topic.

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Saberoph
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sekzee
May 27 2014, 08:00 PM
That was sarcasm?
Just the technicality stuff and the obvious dismissing of AT's involvement in BOG.

You'd be surprised how sarcastic I can be and how convincing I can be too.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Alex D. Boss
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So we're done?
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Saberoph
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Well, I was being sarcastic about certain things, but in all seriousness this is a very interesting debate and I think there are many sides to this argument and this could in reality go on forever until one of the other is officially stated.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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