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| The argument of Frieza>Base Saiyans. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 27 2014, 08:33 AM (4,450 Views) | |
| + Yusuke | May 27 2014, 04:14 PM Post #16 |
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It is supported with the fact that Kaioshin didn't want to go up against Babidi's minions. I know someone's going to use the "Babidi's minions can't be sensed" song and dance here so I found a post from CC that pretty much explains how that's not the case.
I don't see any reason why Goku wasn't suppressed in Beerus's statement. Goku was always shown to be suppressed around the 5,000 mark when not in combat and it's shown when he fought Vegeta/Nappa and the Ginyu Force. Is their a good enough reason for why this shouldn't be the case here? |
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| + Pyrus | May 27 2014, 04:16 PM Post #17 |
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You are correct. Elder Kaioshin says the one who sealed him was not as "bad" as Boo was. This was before Evil Boo was formed. Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P6.5, P7.2, P8.2-3 Elder Kaioshin: “That’s ri~~~ight. Lo~~~ong, lo~~~ong ago, there was this ridiculously strong and ba~~~ad dude. Well, he wasn’t as bad as this Majin Boo guy now, but still~~~. He did it, he se~~~ealed me away inside that sword. Me here. He was freaked out by how fearsome I am. Yep, sure wa~~~as.” Of course, he could just be exaggerating, lying, or "bad" could be worked around like most things in this series now. |
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| + Emmeth | May 27 2014, 04:18 PM Post #18 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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What if I take the "Kaioshin feared Babidi's magic" route? Anyway, it doesn't matter because it's not clearly stated in the manga that Base Saiyans > Kaioshin. In fact, other quotes hint towards the opposite. Then again, I have always been a strong advocate of two angles in the manga. Believe what you want, I'm not gonna convince you otherwise. |
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| sekzee | May 27 2014, 04:19 PM Post #19 |
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Then it isn't contradictory. |
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| + Kaboom | May 27 2014, 04:23 PM Post #20 |
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Easily reconciled by assuming Beerus wasn't nearly as strong at the time, since this supposedly happened hundreds of millennia ago, if not more. |
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| + Yusuke | May 27 2014, 04:24 PM Post #21 |
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Wouldn't that fall under the same category as "Kaioshin being scared of Babidi's title"? Once he can see that it isn't the case with Pui-Pui, I don't know why he wouldn't jump in against Yakon. That's where i'm trying to get at with this debate Emmeth lol. This is a debate that will most likely never see a general conclusion amongst DBZ fans. I suppose we all have our reasons for believing what we believe in so making these types of threads frequently won't solve much. |
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| + Pyrus | May 27 2014, 04:25 PM Post #22 |
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It's quite humorous to think of the God of Destruction as weaker than a random bubblegum monster. Whis could have trained Beerus, though, so who knows. Edited by Pyrus, May 27 2014, 04:26 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | May 27 2014, 04:27 PM Post #23 |
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Izanagi!
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Is there any indication of this whatsoever in BoG? Bills seems to regularly go into deep sleep and there's no implication of it lowering his power. Bills poking Goku's muscles and trying to size him up visually pretty much negates his opinion on Goku's power, imo Edited by Yu Narukami, May 27 2014, 04:29 PM.
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| + Clearin | May 27 2014, 04:31 PM Post #24 |
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Isn't it a bit weird that Beerus would base power on muscles when's pretty much nothing but skin and bones? |
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| + Kaboom | May 27 2014, 04:39 PM Post #25 |
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Technically no, but the idea of Beerus getting more powerful over the past several hundreds of thousands of years at least isn't an unreasonable assumption to make. Especially if just to add some consistency to a comment from Toriyama. |
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| * Yu Narukami | May 27 2014, 04:39 PM Post #26 |
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Izanagi!
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Indeed it is. So, why is the scene included? Kaio telling Goku to hide indicates that Bills senses no normally, so if Goku's suppressed, he's only going to sense his suppressed level, right? Edited by Yu Narukami, May 27 2014, 04:41 PM.
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| sekzee | May 27 2014, 04:42 PM Post #27 |
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I would just say that Beerus isn't technically evil, so Kaioshin could be referring to that. |
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| + Pyrus | May 27 2014, 05:04 PM Post #28 |
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Are "evil" and "bad" synonymous in this case, or could they be different? |
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| sekzee | May 27 2014, 05:10 PM Post #29 |
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They could be interpreted either way, depending on the word that was used. Except one interpretation would cause a contradiction while the other does not. Hence my question. |
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| + Kaboom | May 27 2014, 05:13 PM Post #30 |
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I actually asked Herms about the specific Japanese wording when it came up in a recent podcast, and he clarified that the term was kind of meant to refer to both the "strong" and "evil" parts. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27174&p=787384#p787384 |
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