Science vs Religion

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Science vs Religion
Tweet Topic Started: May 20 2014, 03:18 AM (7,726 Views)
+ Ginyu	May 31 2014, 10:55 AM Post #91
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	Shei Len May 31 2014, 10:50 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 09:52 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 09:03 AM ObsessiveFanGirl May 31 2014, 07:15 AM Idk if this helps at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Religious_groups I still don't consider Buddhism a religion since most Buddhists don't worship any sort of deity. It's more like a philosophy. Same with Satanism. Agnosticism and atheism are definitely not religious groups, and in my opinion there isn't much of a distinction between the two to begin with. Atheists that actively fight against religion are called anti-theists. Why are they not considered religions? Because they aren't "organized collections of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" (wikipedia). They are simply states of... not believing in a deity. That's all there is to it. One can hardly classify that as a religion, as there is nothing religious about it. That would be like calling the state of believing in the big bang theory a religion. It's not a religion. It's a belief. There are plenty of beliefs out there, such as believing that chocolate is a good flavor of ice cream. You've apparently never been to Japan. The Japanese people literally pray at and worship statues of Buddha and ask for his blessing and burn incense in his name and swipe it on themselves in order for him to bless them. They DO worship a deity, even if that deity is only a representation of an ideal. That's where the word most comes from. Sure there are some Buddhist-Christians, Buddhist-Muslims, Buddhist-Shinto (<The case you were probably referring to) but fact is, for the most part, Buddhism is non-theistic. /shrug Ok. What's your point? OFG said most Buddhists are non-religious. You said that it wasn't the case in Japan (Which I really doubt by the way) My point was that Japan was a exception and most Buddhists indeed do not worship a god
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


lunar2	May 31 2014, 03:13 PM Post #92
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	and it doesn't matter whether they worship a god. it is not the presence or absence of a deity that determines whether or not something is a religion. nor is it the level of popularity or organization that determines whether or not something is a religion. it is the sincerity of belief, and how fundamental that system of belief is, that determines whether or not something is a religion. a belief system like buddhism colors every interaction you have throughout your life if you take it seriously. it forms the basis of how you process information, and how you interact with people. that is a religion. atheism, similarly, means you reject any possibility of the supernatural or divine. there must be a rational explanation for everything, and if it seems impossible that just means you don't have all the information. that is, again, a pretty fundamental belief system that, if you take it seriously, will affect large portions of your life as you interact with the majority of people who know there are some things that just can't be explained.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


Shei Len	Jun 1 2014, 06:36 AM Post #93
Posts: 20 Group: New Member Member #11,250 Joined: April 22, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragonball	GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 10:55 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 10:50 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 09:52 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 09:03 AM ObsessiveFanGirl May 31 2014, 07:15 AM Idk if this helps at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Religious_groups I still don't consider Buddhism a religion since most Buddhists don't worship any sort of deity. It's more like a philosophy. Same with Satanism. Agnosticism and atheism are definitely not religious groups, and in my opinion there isn't much of a distinction between the two to begin with. Atheists that actively fight against religion are called anti-theists. Why are they not considered religions? Because they aren't "organized collections of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" (wikipedia). They are simply states of... not believing in a deity. That's all there is to it. One can hardly classify that as a religion, as there is nothing religious about it. That would be like calling the state of believing in the big bang theory a religion. It's not a religion. It's a belief. There are plenty of beliefs out there, such as believing that chocolate is a good flavor of ice cream. You've apparently never been to Japan. The Japanese people literally pray at and worship statues of Buddha and ask for his blessing and burn incense in his name and swipe it on themselves in order for him to bless them. They DO worship a deity, even if that deity is only a representation of an ideal. That's where the word most comes from. Sure there are some Buddhist-Christians, Buddhist-Muslims, Buddhist-Shinto (<The case you were probably referring to) but fact is, for the most part, Buddhism is non-theistic. /shrug Ok. What's your point? OFG said most Buddhists are non-religious. You said that it wasn't the case in Japan (Which I really doubt by the way) My point was that Japan was a exception and most Buddhists indeed do not worship a god I really have nothing else to add, save this: it doesn't really matter if you doubt a witnessed fact, considering I have lived in Japan on 3 separate occasions, and I have many Buddhist friends. So what you "doubt", again, is irrelevant. Your doubts have no place in discussion or debate. Edited by Shei Len, Jun 1 2014, 06:36 AM.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Jun 1 2014, 07:40 AM Post #94
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	Shei Len Jun 1 2014, 06:36 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 10:55 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 10:50 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 09:52 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 09:03 AM ObsessiveFanGirl May 31 2014, 07:15 AM Idk if this helps at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Religious_groups I still don't consider Buddhism a religion since most Buddhists don't worship any sort of deity. It's more like a philosophy. Same with Satanism. Agnosticism and atheism are definitely not religious groups, and in my opinion there isn't much of a distinction between the two to begin with. Atheists that actively fight against religion are called anti-theists. Why are they not considered religions? Because they aren't "organized collections of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" (wikipedia). They are simply states of... not believing in a deity. That's all there is to it. One can hardly classify that as a religion, as there is nothing religious about it. That would be like calling the state of believing in the big bang theory a religion. It's not a religion. It's a belief. There are plenty of beliefs out there, such as believing that chocolate is a good flavor of ice cream. You've apparently never been to Japan. The Japanese people literally pray at and worship statues of Buddha and ask for his blessing and burn incense in his name and swipe it on themselves in order for him to bless them. They DO worship a deity, even if that deity is only a representation of an ideal. That's where the word most comes from. Sure there are some Buddhist-Christians, Buddhist-Muslims, Buddhist-Shinto (<The case you were probably referring to) but fact is, for the most part, Buddhism is non-theistic. /shrug Ok. What's your point? OFG said most Buddhists are non-religious. You said that it wasn't the case in Japan (Which I really doubt by the way) My point was that Japan was a exception and most Buddhists indeed do not worship a god I really have nothing else to add, save this: it doesn't really matter if you doubt a witnessed fact, considering I have lived in Japan on 3 separate occasions, and I have many Buddhist friends. So what you "doubt", again, is irrelevant. Your doubts have no place in discussion or debate. I don't think this matters. I said "most Buddhists," so why this is even being discussed is beyond me.



+ Ginyu	Jun 1 2014, 10:33 AM Post #95
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	Shei Len Jun 1 2014, 06:36 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 10:55 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 10:50 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 09:52 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 09:03 AM ObsessiveFanGirl May 31 2014, 07:15 AM Idk if this helps at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Religious_groups I still don't consider Buddhism a religion since most Buddhists don't worship any sort of deity. It's more like a philosophy. Same with Satanism. Agnosticism and atheism are definitely not religious groups, and in my opinion there isn't much of a distinction between the two to begin with. Atheists that actively fight against religion are called anti-theists. Why are they not considered religions? Because they aren't "organized collections of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" (wikipedia). They are simply states of... not believing in a deity. That's all there is to it. One can hardly classify that as a religion, as there is nothing religious about it. That would be like calling the state of believing in the big bang theory a religion. It's not a religion. It's a belief. There are plenty of beliefs out there, such as believing that chocolate is a good flavor of ice cream. You've apparently never been to Japan. The Japanese people literally pray at and worship statues of Buddha and ask for his blessing and burn incense in his name and swipe it on themselves in order for him to bless them. They DO worship a deity, even if that deity is only a representation of an ideal. That's where the word most comes from. Sure there are some Buddhist-Christians, Buddhist-Muslims, Buddhist-Shinto (<The case you were probably referring to) but fact is, for the most part, Buddhism is non-theistic. /shrug Ok. What's your point? OFG said most Buddhists are non-religious. You said that it wasn't the case in Japan (Which I really doubt by the way) My point was that Japan was a exception and most Buddhists indeed do not worship a god I really have nothing else to add, save this: it doesn't really matter if you doubt a witnessed fact, considering I have lived in Japan on 3 separate occasions, and I have many Buddhist friends. So what you "doubt", again, is irrelevant. Your doubts have no place in discussion or debate. "Your doubts have no place in this discussion." Sure, except for the fact that I've looked all over Internet and can't find anything that sets Japanese Buddhists and normal Buddhists apart from each other regarding theism. You might have lived in Japan on 3 occasions but you still have a limited view of the country. You can't possible have met every Japanese Buddhists. Edited by Ginyu, Jun 1 2014, 10:33 AM.
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


* Ketchup Revenge	Jun 2 2014, 03:42 AM Post #96
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	ObsessiveFanGirl May 31 2014, 07:15 AM Idk if this helps at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Religious_groups I still don't consider Buddhism a religion since most Buddhists don't worship any sort of deity. It's more like a philosophy. Same with Satanism. Agnosticism and atheism are definitely not religious groups, and in my opinion there isn't much of a distinction between the two to begin with. Atheists that actively fight against religion are called anti-theists. Why are they not considered religions? Because they aren't "organized collections of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" (wikipedia). They are simply states of... not believing in a deity. That's all there is to it. One can hardly classify that as a religion, as there is nothing religious about it. That would be like calling the state of believing in the big bang theory a religion. It's not a religion. It's a belief. There are plenty of beliefs out there, such as believing that chocolate is a good flavor of ice cream. I agree with your post. With the Satanism thing, the most common form of Satanism is a modern version called LeVayan Satanism, which is more of a "troll" religion than an actual worship of Satan. It was founded by Anton LeVay in 1966, and was inspired by the simple rituals of true Satanism. LeVayan Satanists believe in free will and not conforming to organized religion, but most of them don't actually believe that Satan exists. Most of the members are either Atheist or Anti-Theist (against organized religion). They simply worship Satan because he represents their ideas about free will and rebellion against religious authority. Their gatherings and rituals are simply mocks of actual religion. However, there are legitimate Satanists out there, but most of them live in Northern Europe whose ancestors were Norse. A lot of these people find "Satan" because Christianity overpowered the old Norse religions, so their worship of Satan is mostly rebellious as well, but they actually believe he exists. ... I find chocolate an excellent flavor of ice-cream.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Shei Len	Jun 5 2014, 07:42 AM Post #97
Posts: 20 Group: New Member Member #11,250 Joined: April 22, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragonball	GinyuTokusentai Jun 1 2014, 10:33 AM Shei Len Jun 1 2014, 06:36 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 10:55 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 10:50 AM GinyuTokusentai May 31 2014, 09:52 AM Shei Len May 31 2014, 09:03 AM ObsessiveFanGirl May 31 2014, 07:15 AM Idk if this helps at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Religious_groups I still don't consider Buddhism a religion since most Buddhists don't worship any sort of deity. It's more like a philosophy. Same with Satanism. Agnosticism and atheism are definitely not religious groups, and in my opinion there isn't much of a distinction between the two to begin with. Atheists that actively fight against religion are called anti-theists. Why are they not considered religions? Because they aren't "organized collections of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" (wikipedia). They are simply states of... not believing in a deity. That's all there is to it. One can hardly classify that as a religion, as there is nothing religious about it. That would be like calling the state of believing in the big bang theory a religion. It's not a religion. It's a belief. There are plenty of beliefs out there, such as believing that chocolate is a good flavor of ice cream. You've apparently never been to Japan. The Japanese people literally pray at and worship statues of Buddha and ask for his blessing and burn incense in his name and swipe it on themselves in order for him to bless them. They DO worship a deity, even if that deity is only a representation of an ideal. That's where the word most comes from. Sure there are some Buddhist-Christians, Buddhist-Muslims, Buddhist-Shinto (<The case you were probably referring to) but fact is, for the most part, Buddhism is non-theistic. /shrug Ok. What's your point? OFG said most Buddhists are non-religious. You said that it wasn't the case in Japan (Which I really doubt by the way) My point was that Japan was a exception and most Buddhists indeed do not worship a god I really have nothing else to add, save this: it doesn't really matter if you doubt a witnessed fact, considering I have lived in Japan on 3 separate occasions, and I have many Buddhist friends. So what you "doubt", again, is irrelevant. Your doubts have no place in discussion or debate. "Your doubts have no place in this discussion." Sure, except for the fact that I've looked all over Internet and can't find anything that sets Japanese Buddhists and normal Buddhists apart from each other regarding theism. You might have lived in Japan on 3 occasions but you still have a limited view of the country. You can't possible have met every Japanese Buddhists. Oh! You've scoured the internet to no avail? My goodness, my apologies. You must be correct then. If this is what you people pass for debate and fact, ohmy.



+ Steve	Jun 5 2014, 08:29 AM Post #98
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	So...does anyone actually disagree with science and think it's totally wrong? I'd hope most of you who are religious can accept both having valid points
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


Shei Len	Jun 5 2014, 09:11 AM Post #99
Posts: 20 Group: New Member Member #11,250 Joined: April 22, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragonball	Steve Jun 5 2014, 08:29 AM So...does anyone actually disagree with science and think it's totally wrong? I'd hope most of you who are religious can accept both having valid points I am religious yet I welcome science. They coexist nicely. One thing I don't get about scientist, and atheist, in general, is why are you always trying to disprove a god, or creationism? Why does the fact that you think God doens't exist even come up with you guys? Like, why are you OUT to prove that? What's that got to do with scientific discovery? It's almost like every time scientist discover something, you can't wait to shove it in religious folks face and say "SEE, IDIOTS! GOD ISN'T REAL LOL". I don't get that..like..why? Why can't you guys accept that yes, the universe is 13 billion years old, and maybe God created the big bang? Who knows? You certainly don't. Myself, I welcome and embrace science. Yes, even the science that says the universe is 13 billion years old. I believe that. I don't think God is beyond that, and I am pretty sure an omnipotent God can do anything, even create a universe 13 billion years ago. I just don't get why science and religion are looked at as mutually exclusive. It doesn't make sense to me.



+ Pointer	Jun 5 2014, 09:46 AM Post #100
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Steve Jun 5 2014, 08:29 AM I'd hope most of you who are religious can accept both having valid points As you are an only science folk ...I am askin you Do you have at least one valid point. Explain me this.. What really an electron is Is It a subatomic particle or quantum wave? What was before the big bang ..Some say nothing but it can not because of CAUSALITY Why we can not predict the exact place and speed of a subatomic particle(principle of Heisenberg) at the same time Why does a muon type particle such as neutrino which has less mass than the photon , has more than 100000 times energy NOTE : In quantummechanics Energy and mass is linear So it is a contradiction, but still exists Science has a lot of odd explanations Im not sayin it is not good and rational , nonetheless not as universal As you may think Science is still a child...... Edited by Pointer*, Jun 5 2014, 09:47 AM.



+ Steve	Jun 5 2014, 10:23 AM Post #101
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Cherry Jun 5 2014, 09:46 AM Science is still a child...... Case in point really, some things we just don't understand yet or maybe never will. Hundreds of years ago basic things today were "magic" so things we don't understand now may be basic knowledge in the next 1000 years and then repeat. Science could eventually find God of course. Quote: One thing I don't get about scientist, and atheist, in general, is why are you always trying to disprove a god, or creationism? Largely I think that's just ego, to prove a whole religion wrong would be like the Holy Grail(ironic) of "I told you so" achievements. To scientists most religious people seem stupid, the thought of the Earth only being 6000 years old and other things like that. Doubtful most scientists know much about religion beyond the stupid claims people gather from the Bible, so they probably wouldn't denounce things like Buddhism unless they were just being jerks. I don't really care if God is to be proved real or not, would rather it isn't real since it doesn't seem to care about us though. I would just like it if religious people couldn't go crazy at me saying I'm a sinner or going to hell for silly little things like unmarried sex or wearing mixed cloth. I have no beef with quiet religious folk, if you believe in a God of whatever sort good for you just don't try to force it down my throat and especially don't try to convert any children I might have.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Pointer	Jun 5 2014, 12:18 PM Post #102
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Steve Jun 5 2014, 10:23 AM Cherry Jun 5 2014, 09:46 AM Science is still a child...... Case in point really, some things we just don't understand yet or maybe never will. Hundreds of years ago basic things today were "magic" so things we don't understand now may be basic knowledge in the next 1000 years and then repeat. Science could eventually find God of course. Quote: One thing I don't get about scientist, and atheist, in general, is why are you always trying to disprove a god, or creationism? Largely I think that's just ego, to prove a whole religion wrong would be like the Holy Grail(ironic) of "I told you so" achievements. To scientists most religious people seem stupid, the thought of the Earth only being 6000 years old and other things like that. Doubtful most scientists know much about religion beyond the stupid claims people gather from the Bible, so they probably wouldn't denounce things like Buddhism unless they were just being jerks. I don't really care if God is to be proved real or not, would rather it isn't real since it doesn't seem to care about us though. I would just like it if religious people couldn't go crazy at me saying I'm a sinner or going to hell for silly little things like unmarried sex or wearing mixed cloth. I have no beef with quiet religious folk, if you believe in a God of whatever sort good for you just don't try to force it down my throat and especially don't try to convert any children I might have. Science will NEVER prove that In fact whenever we find out something even more questions appear...It is a never ending circle



* Yu Narukami	Jun 5 2014, 12:40 PM Post #103
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	I... Scientists aren't out to 'disprove' religion or God. They're out to simply gain an understanding of how things work through observations and experiments. Also, in regards to your mentioning of atheists and disproving the same things, no. Anti-theists are out to actively oppose theism. Sure, some scientists are probably anti-theist, but what does that matter? The vast majority are simply doing their job and indulging in their curiosity about the Universe and how it works. @Cherry - I don't know, as I'm not a scientist. I'm not an expert in any sense of the word when it comes to science, so I don't expect myself to understand its complexities. I leave that to the people who've studied and acquired that understanding.



+ Ginyu	Jun 5 2014, 02:30 PM Post #104
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	Shei Len Jun 5 2014, 07:42 AM Oh! You've scoured the internet to no avail? My goodness, my apologies. You must be correct then. If this is what you people pass for debate and fact, ohmy. Well... Why should I believe you? To me, you're just another person on the internet as well. Trusting you is actually a less reliable source then something common such as Wikipedia...
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


yokip	Jun 7 2014, 06:18 PM Post #105
Posts: 36 Group: Member Member #11,272 Joined: April 29, 2014	Cherry Jun 5 2014, 09:46 AM Steve Jun 5 2014, 08:29 AM I'd hope most of you who are religious can accept both having valid points As you are an only science folk ...I am askin you Do you have at least one valid point. Explain me this.. What really an electron is Is It a subatomic particle or quantum wave? What was before the big bang ..Some say nothing but it can not because of CAUSALITY Why we can not predict the exact place and speed of a subatomic particle(principle of Heisenberg) at the same time Why does a muon type particle such as neutrino which has less mass than the photon , has more than *100000 times energy NOTE : In quantummechanics Energy and mass is linear So it is a contradiction, but still exists Science has a lot of odd explanations Im not sayin it is not good and rational , nonetheless not as universal As you may think Science is still a child...... There is a scientific explanation to theses things but we don't know it.



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