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| Science vs Religion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 20 2014, 03:18 AM (7,721 Views) | |
| * Ketchup Revenge | May 20 2014, 03:18 AM Post #1 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Crashbreaka locked the last topic related to heaven and hell, and for good reason, because it became one about Science and Religion, and as such, had strayed way off course. What are your thoughts on scientific endeavor, and it's potential threat to religious belief and teachings? If you are religious, would you change your beliefs if science proved your beliefs wrong... or have you already changed them? Most scientists are Atheists or agnostics, and you don't find many religious scientists. Do you think there's any scientific basis in religious belief, particularly in the existence of a god, or do you believe that God is something that can't be experienced through physical means? Edited by Ketchup Revenge, May 20 2014, 03:19 AM.
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 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| EMIYA | May 20 2014, 03:32 AM Post #2 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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For me, while I believe spirituality is a great thing to have, to me religion especially in today's societies is one of the single worst things that has plagued humanity. As I pointed out in the other topic, religious people have yet to provide rational evidence to support their claim. The Flood, the earth being only 6,000 or so years old, etc. Religion has provided absolutely zero proof onto these things and just makes the assumption that it must be true. Science? Science has been putting in answers and giving evidence since day one. We've carbon dating on our side to help us provide evidence that the Earth isn't 6,000 years old but is around 4.5 billion years old (I believe that was the number) Science hasn't said one thing, one single iota of something without giving loads and loads of data, statistics, information evidence, hypotheses, tests over and over again. What has religion provided? I've seen no logical evidence but I have seen a lot of fallacy. appeal to faith circular reasoning One of the most prominent is the logic of "Well there must be a reason for it." or "God must be real because he knew we'd be wearing glasses so he gave us noses." Science and religion are so far apart that it honestly isn't even funny and considering what religion has brought, to me the sooner religion steps away the better. |
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| Mihawk | May 20 2014, 03:48 AM Post #3 |
 
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A lack of faith is a general trend across the globe, but I'd love to see a source for this. |
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| WarriorRace | May 20 2014, 04:02 AM Post #4 |
 
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I agree with Brofist. Science provides proof for everything it states. It uses data, facts, and logic. Religion always seems to use the faith argument which isn't really an argument at all. When science doesn't have a definitive answer for something then religious people seem to use that as a way to discredit other proven scientific facts and theories. But then they can't actually prove it themselves using religion so the only answer left is to have a little faith. If science contradicts or disproves something religious then religion uses the argument that God can't fit into our logic because we can't comprehend a being such as God. Which isn't exactly an answer to anything either. I feel that religion just sort of dances around everything with the faith excuse. If science did somehow disprove religion definitively then I think many religious people would use faith and God being incomprehensible to humans as arguments to keep believing; just like many people still don't believe in evolution or the Big Bang even though they are widely accepted theories. |
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May 20 2014, 05:47 AM Post #5 |
 
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I neither believe in science nor in religion.The Truth is that some men have grown tired of luck,miracle,faith etc.This why for them science is their "religion".No other greater explanation exist for them.And for the other half of the people "Religion" is their "science". Men can never understand the concept of "Free Will" because they are weak,corrupt,restless and useless. etc.This why the so called "governments" exist.People believe in authority because they have grown tired of faith,miracles,luck etc.The government give's them happiness and the people give them the authority. Edited by CheckMateIzGod, May 20 2014, 10:11 AM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | May 20 2014, 06:00 AM Post #6 |
 
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Science doesn't have the answer to everything. There's things we can't answer. What's before the universe? What's before that? And what's before that? See? We don't know for sure. Like bro fist mentioned in the other thread. Matter can't be created so where did the matter that caused the Big Bang come from? And where did that matter come from? It's endless. So there could be something beyond physics that started all this. Not saying it's god for sure buts it's a possibility God's logic is not the same as ours'. 6,000 years for god could be different than 6,000 years for us. Edit: found this: Psalms 90:4 says, "For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night." 2 Peter 3:8 says, "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" So yes, he views time differently than we do Edited by Ssj3vegito96, May 20 2014, 06:04 AM.
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| SpeedoTrunks | May 20 2014, 06:06 AM Post #7 |
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For what it is worth, I would highly suggest checking out the latest "Cosmos" series that is doing the rounds. The first episode shows that some of the biggest discoveries have been made by those with religion, because to them, god had inspired them to do so. You also see what happens when the religion itself dislikes your findings. The main example is the chap who dreamt of not just a singular world that god had created, but a whole universe. His reasoning way, why would he stop there? Why are we so special? The church did not agree and locked him away for a long time. Science has already changed the way any religion see's itself in the modern world, with any real spiritual teaching adapting around science, and not the other way around. Only now are some of the more main stream religions coming round, whilst the likes of Buddhism have always been reasonably respectful of science, even out right stating it'll have to change if science "disproves" anything it teaches. |
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| Tonneh | May 20 2014, 09:06 AM Post #8 |
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Just because we don't know yet doesn't mean we won't find the answer. I'm sorry that I have nothing further to add to this discussion as I don't really know anything about religion. On a side note - I think it's a good thing that people have faith - I'm sure it teaches you about how you should conduct yourself in day to day life (be kind to fellow human etc). It's just the radicals though mate that seem to ruin it for the majority, good natured religious people like yourself. And you said in the other thread as well that they're giving Christianity a bad name. I'm science all the way. |
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| rusty_sim | May 20 2014, 09:49 AM Post #9 |
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I tried finding a pie chart for scientists/engineers by religion. Or a religion by occupation bar chart or something but couldn't - could someone help me out? I'm an engineering student and have found that most of my senior lectures are religious. I'm curious because i also think scientists tend to be athiest while engineers tend to be religious. Science doesn't keep a plane in the sky, engineering does. |
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| + Steve | May 20 2014, 11:23 AM Post #10 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Science for me too, what has religion ever helped really? All I can think of is born again Christian kind of people but you can never really know if they're legit believers, delusional or just pretending to suit their needs. Science cures disease, gives us great opportunities and let's us see more of the universe. When is the last time God ever cured someone of blindness, or just even answered a prayer? God can apparently do anything it wants, maybe people born with horrific diseases and such are accidentally damned but it doesn't bother helping them, why even make the disease a thing to begin with. Nothing about what people say God is or does really makes much sense. The human brain can never understand that the universe, matter etc can just always have been here. We can accept that but never understand how that is possible we're beings of knowledge and absolutes, something had to have created everything! So we slap "God" on it when really it's just a lack being able to understand the truth. I have no problem with religions, it's nice to have faith in something and have some rules/morals in life but there's just no kind of evidence to suggest anything in any holy book is true. I don't necessarily hope that religion is removed from society in the future but I hope that it becomes very different, more like Satanism where rather than worship it's more of a lifestyle, like being a vegan or vegetarian. Not something that has actual power over people and can influence laws and lives, because it's ridiculous that people get executed for doing things that whatever God "didn't want" To quote someone from Twitter/internet: (this is changing now of course but you get the idea of how stupid it ever has been) "Funny how we know gay people exist and don't know if god exists, but deny gay people their rights on the off chance it might piss god off" |
 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | May 20 2014, 01:19 PM Post #11 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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*Phys.org: Scientists may not be very religious, but Science may not be to blame *lhup.edu: Leading scientists still reject God *FreeThoughtPedia.com: Percentage of Atheists (scrolled down to the scientist section). Apparently you don't understand your own field of study. Engineering wouldn't be possible without application of science. --Source Edited by Ketchup Revenge, May 21 2014, 01:39 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| EMIYA | May 20 2014, 06:26 PM Post #12 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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@ Ssj3vegito96: Then you'd have to point out how the time span of religion is different than the time span of say carbon dating. Please note that when we look into religious texts and stuff we try to look at in a way that corresponds with how they saw things during that time. Remember 6,000 years is essentially the interpretation that religious people give. Carbon Dating has outright denied that point to an almost ridiculous level meaning that if 6,000 years is wrong is may very well be wrong an interpretation level. @CheckMateIzGod : I don't know what your trying to get at. Free will is the concept of being able to make your own choice without being hindered by factors. It's one of the easiest things to understand and has a very simple definition. Governments weren't created because people lacked free will, were corrupt or anything like that. They were created as a way to set order into society and expand upon social status. Corruption and all that is caused afterwards when social issues cause strife to a individuals and governments like those usually don't last very long either because they're eventually overthrown. |
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| TheGmGoken | May 21 2014, 01:31 AM Post #13 |
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I'm one of those people who likes to mix ideas to create my own ideas. Now these creates problems but meh. I have the idea of God creating the universe and mixing religion and science. I like what science does but however science have proven that religion is true as well. So it works both ways. God in a way tells us indirectly how to find more information about our existence with science. With ideas of science mixing in with religion it fixes all problems for me. The flood could be exaggerated or the flood could even wiped out the Dinosaurs. Why did we evolve? Science proves we changed to adapt to our surrounding. Let's connect this to religion(I'm a Baptist Christian). God help us change to continue to live on in the universe he created. Why haven't we seen God? Simple IMHO. He doesn't wants us to see him yet or if you want Science. When we look at planets sometimes the light reflections(Forgot what they're called) are from over millions of years ago. So God as he jump from planet to planet(Creating the universe) we don't see him because we're looking at the wrong time period for that planet. |
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May 21 2014, 05:59 AM Post #14 |
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@Brofist I think you don't understand the concept or the full potential of "Free Will".For example consider the following situation.You have a gun and I am in front of you.Suppose you want to kill me or anyone(be it any reason).But you can't kill me or anyone.I can guarantee this fact to you.This because you are afraid that you will go to the jail because you have broken a "law" or your afraid of the fact that you will commit a "sin" by doing this action.This why human beings fail to understand the concept of "Free Will".This is why men in general are weak,corrupt,restless and useless.Most of them have ceased to believe in "god",but yet they fear him?!? Huh funny isn't it? Anyone who can appease the conscious of man,can take away the freedom of that person in guise of democracy or any form of government. |
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May 21 2014, 06:25 AM Post #15 |
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I'll try to explain in brief, simple terms why free will is nothing but an illusion in Christianity. You obviously won't believe me or agree with me even after I post this, but I feel the need to defend my own position. 1. God is defined in the bible several times as being all-knowing and omnipotent. This means that he knows everything. According to the bible, he knew you before you were even born. 2. Because God knows everything, he must know whether you are going to heaven or hell before you even exist in the world. I know that's a little hard for humans to wrap their minds around, but bear with me. Let's make up an example. There's a boy named Bob. God knew that Bob was going to heaven before he was even born because he knows everything. Bob may believe he has free will. He can do whatever he wants, right? But because God knows everything that he's going to do anyway (he pre-destined it, after all), Bob's free will is nothing more than an illusion. Sure, God isn't necessarily controlling humans. Bob makes a conscious decision to eat an apple. But God already knew that he was going to eat that apple because he knows everything. Bob can theoretically "choose" to live a godly life and go to heaven, but God already knew that he was going to do that anyway. There is no possible way for Bob to go to hell because God already pre-destined that he would go to heaven, so although Bob is making these choices, his free will in the matter is only an illusion. I get that this is difficult to understand. It's even more difficult for me to try to explain it since it's so silly. Pre-destination is a very real thing in Christianity. God knows whether you're going to heaven or hell. He's known all along. It's up to you to make your own decisions, but no matter what you do you're never going to go against what God already knows and what he's already pre-destined for you. |
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