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How strong are the Base Saiyans?
Topic Started: May 17 2014, 06:05 PM (3,449 Views)
lunar2
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kaioshin > ssj gohan > base gohan ~ piccolo (buu) > piccolo (cell) ~ assj vegeta.

base vegeta > base gohan. other than that, can't say.

base goku > base vegeta. other than that, can't say.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Vertical
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lunar2
May 21 2014, 05:49 PM
kaioshin > ssj gohan > base gohan ~ piccolo (buu) > piccolo (cell) ~ assj vegeta.
Very interested in how you came to the conclusion of where you place Kaioshin and Base Gohan in this chain.
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lunar2
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kaioshin performed better against buu than gohan did. he's also able to hold ssj2 gohan. going back to the saiyans saga, when chiaotzu tried to hold nappa, he couldn't because nappa was too powerful. kaioshin could possibly be weaker than ssj gohan, and just happened to have a better showing, so i'm not really firm on that part.

as for base gohan. gohan is so much weaker than vegeta or goku, i'm just not confident in putting him much stronger than piccolo. when dealing with piccolo vs. base saiyans outside babidi's ship, i prefer to think that gohan just couldn't suppress as low (due to less skill and experience than the others), so dabura estimated him higher, compared to his actual power, than he did the others. again, it's not a firm thing, just a personal opinion that i'm comfortable with.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Alex D. Boss
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Lol Kaioshin used a Kiai attack , it doesn't relate to his power. No way he is stronger than SSJ Gohan let alone Base Saiyans. Vertical.
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Shinishi
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Saiyans are powerful, we see that with Baddack, Goku and Vegeta. ;)
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lunar2
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Alex KloonBoss
May 21 2014, 08:46 PM
Lol Kaioshin used a Kiai attack , it doesn't relate to his power. No way he is stronger than SSJ Gohan let alone Base Saiyans. Vertical.
kiai's use ki just like any other attack. assuming what he did was a kiai.

you still haven't explained why he was able to hold gohan. assuming v-jump power levels, chiaotzu at 610 couldn't hold nappa at 4,000. 4,000/610=6.56. so kaioshin is more than ~5/33 of ssj2 gohan's power. that should, at the very least, make him stronger than base gohan.

now, personally, i have both chiaotzu and nappa stronger than that, but once we start getting into individual power levels, we lose our basis for comparison. so the gist of that is, you can't hold someone more than a few times as powerful as you are, meaning ssj2 gohan is not more than a few times as powerful as kaioshin.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Mihawk
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Alex has a point with the Kiai, just look at how far Ten pushed back Cell despite the absurd gap between them.

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lunar2
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yes, with the most amped attack in the entire series. comparing the shin kikoho with a normal kiai is like comparing a nuke to a firecracker.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Mihawk
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It's probably a good idea to find an in between for the attack simply being a pushing attack and absurd amp instead of only absurd amp.

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lunar2
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well, goku vs. nappa. they were nearly even in power. goku had some advantage, but not enough to end the fight quickly. his kiai barely negated nappa's attack. kaioshin managed to negate buu's attack. which could mean that it was a weak attack for buu, or it could mean kaioshin is also using an amped kiai, or any number of other things. the point is that kiai aren't some special attack that ignores all defenses. kaioshin managed to negate the attack because he had the power to negate the attack. he managed to hold gohan because he had the power to hold gohan. every time kaioshin actually did anything, it was something impressive. he just happened to have a fairygodmotherphobia, so he was a coward around anything related to bibidi, babidi, and buu.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Alex D. Boss
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lunar2
May 21 2014, 11:45 PM
Alex KloonBoss
May 21 2014, 08:46 PM
Lol Kaioshin used a Kiai attack , it doesn't relate to his power. No way he is stronger than SSJ Gohan let alone Base Saiyans. Vertical.
kiai's use ki just like any other attack. assuming what he did was a kiai.

you still haven't explained why he was able to hold gohan. assuming v-jump power levels, chiaotzu at 610 couldn't hold nappa at 4,000. 4,000/610=6.56. so kaioshin is more than ~5/33 of ssj2 gohan's power. that should, at the very least, make him stronger than base gohan.

now, personally, i have both chiaotzu and nappa stronger than that, but once we start getting into individual power levels, we lose our basis for comparison. so the gist of that is, you can't hold someone more than a few times as powerful as you are, meaning ssj2 gohan is not more than a few times as powerful as kaioshin.

Gohan didn't expected , and kiai doesn't relate to power , its not from him own strength.

I don't trust V-jump pwls anyway , their just bullshet.
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lunar2
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Alex KloonBoss
May 22 2014, 12:20 PM
lunar2
May 21 2014, 11:45 PM
Alex KloonBoss
May 21 2014, 08:46 PM
Lol Kaioshin used a Kiai attack , it doesn't relate to his power. No way he is stronger than SSJ Gohan let alone Base Saiyans. Vertical.
kiai's use ki just like any other attack. assuming what he did was a kiai.

you still haven't explained why he was able to hold gohan. assuming v-jump power levels, chiaotzu at 610 couldn't hold nappa at 4,000. 4,000/610=6.56. so kaioshin is more than ~5/33 of ssj2 gohan's power. that should, at the very least, make him stronger than base gohan.

now, personally, i have both chiaotzu and nappa stronger than that, but once we start getting into individual power levels, we lose our basis for comparison. so the gist of that is, you can't hold someone more than a few times as powerful as you are, meaning ssj2 gohan is not more than a few times as powerful as kaioshin.

Gohan didn't expected , and kiai doesn't relate to power , its not from him own strength.

I don't trust V-jump pwls anyway , their just bullshet.
kiais are from your own strength. it's the genki dama that gathers outside strength. a kiai is just an unfocused wave of ki, that pushes your target instead of striking them. it's the difference between a shove and a punch. you use your own muscle when you shove someone, just like when you punch them.

as for the saiyans saga pls. that's fine. chiaotzu's most likely stronger than that, anyway. it didn't make sense for him to be so much weaker than everyone else, after going through the same training. doesn't change the fact that you can't paralyze anyone more than a few times your power.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Clearin
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Why are you using Chaozu's human(?) psychic powers as a way of measuring a God's psychic powers?
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sekzee
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Funny how we are now acknowledging Kaioshin as a god to make an argument when there is really nothing godly about him or the other
Kaioshin.
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+ Clearin
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sekzee
May 22 2014, 04:13 PM
Funny how we are now acknowledging Kaioshin as a god to make an argument when there is really nothing godly about him or the other
Kaioshin.
Except the fact they are literal Gods. Not like Kami who only has the title God, Kaioshin was born an actual God in the same way Goku is born a Saiyan.
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