Would heaven and hell being real be a good thing?

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Would heaven and hell being real be a good thing?
Tweet Topic Started: May 13 2014, 11:18 PM (5,949 Views)
Tonneh	May 17 2014, 06:29 AM Post #61
Posts: 81 Group: Member Member #9,925 Joined: August 17, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragonball Z	This whole argument steers me away from religion all together. I'm happy for people to have faith, People can believe in what they want to believe, Who am I to tell them different? But don't shove it down my throat and tell me I'm going to hell just because I or we don't believe what you believe. Edit: Anyway, Sorry lol prob not the right place to get that out - but had to somewhere I guess. Edited by Tonneh, May 17 2014, 06:29 AM.



WarriorRace	May 17 2014, 06:58 AM Post #62
Posts: 206 Group: Member Member #10,910 Joined: February 20, 2014 Gender Male Country Canada Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	POOHEAD189 May 17 2014, 02:58 AM Quote: You honestly can't think that a fetus in a woman's womb was so "defiant of god" that it deserved to die. You honestly can't think that God wouldn't know exactly what those children would grow up to be. POOHEAD189 May 17 2014, 04:58 AM Wow you really hate theism don't you? I already said that God didn't make humans as a final draft from the beginning. Bad things happen in life, it's life. If God solved everything or made everything perfect we would be without free will. Would you like to be a slave in a dream world or yourself in this one? It almost seems like you're stomping your feet and saying it's not fair. So if humans have free will and God didn't make humans as a final draft then how would he know what unborn children would grow up to be? If he did know then we don't actually have free will and everything is already predetermined. And if that's true then why did he even let these children be conceived? An all-powerful entity should be able to prevent this. But if we do have free will then how would he know that the fetuses would be "defiant of god"? Because free will would allow the fetus to choose its own path once its actually born. On topic though I'd prefer nothing to heaven and hell. An eternity is too long to pay for 80ish years of sin.



* Ketchup Revenge	May 17 2014, 07:04 AM Post #63
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	POOHEAD189 May 17 2014, 04:58 AM Well like I said, whether it happened or not I don't know. But he already explained how it happened in a short amount of time, and from what I know of science, it would take more than that to boil the earth's atmosphere or destroy the oceans. Plus, the water beneath the earth could very well be enough to negate the magma. The energy released would be an estimated 10 to the 28th power joules, which is more than enough to boil off the oceans. Quote: There's been plenty findings of fish fossils atop mountains. One such skeleton in particular showed a fish eating another fish, having died from some massive 'thing' even as it ate. And John R. Baumgardner already stated how fossils we believe to be millions of years old could very well be thousands. Carbon dating (which can date accurately up to 60,000 years ago) would prove this wrong immediately. Carbon 14 is the element they use to identify the age of things through carbon dating, and environmental elements have no effect on the rate of decay. 60,000 years of lee-way can put these fossils well out of the range of the Biblical timeline (which is only 6,000. Quote: Though to be completely on topic, whether or not Christianity is real...I would like there to be a heaven and hell, or a good place and a bad place, rather than dying to become nothing. You don't become nothing. Atheists don't even believe this. If you see yourself as part of the universe, than you simply change form when you die. All the elements in your body simply get redistributed, and make grass grow, and give the animals sustenance when they eat the grass. It goes on endlessly until the Universe dies. The elements that make up your body were created in our sun, and will continue to exist until the Universe ends... if it does eventually end. The elements that make up you will pass through billions of living things, and will probably become part of some of those beings at some point. It's the cycle of the Universe, and there is no god needed. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, May 17 2014, 09:33 PM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


+ Pointer	May 17 2014, 09:29 AM Post #64
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	ObsessiveFanGirl May 15 2014, 09:37 AM Cherry May 15 2014, 08:59 AM ObsessiveFanGirl May 15 2014, 08:31 AM Quote: Actually I recently read most of the old testament. God wasn't really all that harsh to anyone. In fact he was way too merciful than you'd probably expect. He freed israel from vicious slavery and kept forgiving them even after they would denounce him and disobey him for hundreds of years. Seriously, the chosen people of god were the ones in the wrong ALL of the time, and he still forgave them every. single. time. I felt sorry for God a lil bit, having to deal with that. I wonder if God was being merciful when he wiped out millions of innocent men, women, children, and infants in the worldwide flood simply because they were "sinning" a little too much for his liking. i dont want to offend you but have you ever read the Bible? Those men and women were far from being INNOCENT, yes that decision was a little bit too cruel, but God already regreted that decision hence there will never be the same "punishment" again no matter how rotten the world is/will be/ From that point on ...People did make a lot of sins, But God forgave them, no matter how vicious they were So you're saying that all of those infants and children weren't innocent? If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, why did he create all of those people in the first place? Wouldn't he have known that they were going to screw up? Why would he create flawed humans to begin with if he was just going to wipe them all out? God sounds more like a hormonal teenager than all all-powerful being to me. But this isn't that type of thread, so yeahhhh back on topic I guess. No No No He created Adam and Eve He gave them a perfect life, where there is no death, sadness But he also gave them free will It is not the God's fault that Eve made the very first sin, she did that because she had free will. If God had created perfect humans they would have not made the same thing thus granting the humanity to live in that perfect world. Humanity is not programable. God granted them free will thus letting them make decisions . So they made terrible things. Finally An example Lets say you are a mother of 4 children ...You said them that they can do whatever they want while you are out, but you forbade to play with the fire. Right after you got home you realised that they accidentaly fired up the kitchen and even one of them suffered an injury caused by fire. How would you react. You will not be that kind which you are used to be I reckon......That is how God operates. Allowing humanity to do anything , except a few things /Like playin with the fire in the example above/.....They committed sins...yet they didnt regret it. It made things even worse............



Tonneh	May 17 2014, 11:49 AM Post #65
Posts: 81 Group: Member Member #9,925 Joined: August 17, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragonball Z	Yeah but how is God killing off a crapload of people any better? That's like saying people who breed dogs can kill off the ones they don't like just because the female dog ate out of the wrong bowl. We can't control what bowl the dogs eat out of either. Edited by Tonneh, May 17 2014, 11:59 AM.



+ Steve	May 17 2014, 02:25 PM Post #66
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	God didn't give humans free will, Satan did. God wanted us to be slaves worshipping him forever, not even knowing right and wrong and Satan had Eve eat from the tree of knowledge, thus gaining knowledge of right and wrong. And then God punished humans, even though we literally did not know that eating from the tree was a "bad" thing. God is stupid, it's like a child given all that power. And clearly not all powerful if it didn't want us to have true free will or anything like that it could just simply have erased that from having ever happened, as far as Godly powers go it's pretty weak really. It's only power is creation, it can create whatever it wants but not do whatever it wants. It can't see the future or do anything perfect, if it could everything would be perfect by it's design, no Satan would have messed stuff up, no having to flood the world, no mistakes ever. If God is real then my best guess is that the other Gods just kicked it out of their domain and left it to mess around because it's the runt of the litter. God wanted us to be programmable and it failed. Just look at that statement, God FAILED. The idea that God would punish us, for its mistakes leaves me with no respect for it. Other than me being alive right now but for only 60-80 years or so and that sucks. Every bad thing in this universe is God's fault if it really is the creator so it should be the only thing punished in hell, it should have just made us and everything else properly but I guess it couldn't since it isn't all powerful.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Pointer	May 17 2014, 02:37 PM Post #67
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Steve May 17 2014, 02:25 PM God didn't give humans free will, Satan did. God wanted us to be slaves worshipping him forever, not even knowing right and wrong and Satan had Eve eat from the tree of knowledge, thus gaining knowledge of right and wrong. And then God punished humans, even though we literally did not know that eating from the tree was a "bad" thing. God is stupid, it's like a child given all that power. And clearly not all powerful if it didn't want us to have true free will or anything like that it could just simply have erased that from having ever happened, as far as Godly powers go it's pretty weak really. It's only power is creation, it can create whatever it wants but not do whatever it wants. It can't see the future or do anything perfect, if it could everything would be perfect by it's design, no Satan would have messed stuff up, no having to flood the world, no mistakes ever. If God is real then my best guess is that the other Gods just kicked it out of their domain and left it to mess around because it's the runt of the litter. God wanted us to be programmable and it failed. Just look at that statement, God FAILED. The idea that God would punish us, for its mistakes leaves me with no respect for it. Other than me being alive right now but for only 60-80 years or so and that sucks. Every bad thing in this universe is God's fault if it really is the creator so it should be the only thing punished in hell, it should have just made us and everything else properly but I guess it couldn't since it isn't all powerful. i suggest you to re read the genesis . Then you might realise where your points needs some correction. God forbade adam and eve to eat from that tree. And also satan has nothing to do with free will . All it did was manipulating a curious woman



+ Steve	May 17 2014, 02:53 PM Post #68
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Cherry May 17 2014, 02:37 PM i suggest you to re read the genesis . Then you might realise where your points needs some correction. God forbade adam and eve to eat from that tree. And also satan has nothing to do with free will . All it did was manipulating a curious woman But they still could not know that going against God's will was a bad thing. God gave is pseudo free will, conditional free will whatever you want to call it.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


EMIYA	May 17 2014, 03:02 PM Post #69
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	God is what happens when you give a narcissist a gun. His entire thing and with almost any deity for that matter is an ego trip. It's not about how God can help others or change or learn. It's about: "I am the law, I am the ruler, what I say goes and if you don't do exactly as I say I will end you. You have no choice, no correction. I am the best and you will never be better than me." and if anyone disagrees he gets rid of them. It's like a bratty child who breaks his own toys just so nobody else can have it. It's like if I can't have fun than nobody can have fun because...again I'm just better than everyone.



+ Pelador	May 17 2014, 03:03 PM Post #70
Crazy Awesome Legend Posts: 25,663 Group: Legend Member #4,634 Joined: December 12, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime HunterxHunter What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragonball	And why was the tree even there? How could God allow events to conspire behind it's back?
	http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits


+ Pointer	May 17 2014, 05:11 PM Post #71
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Father Brofist May 17 2014, 03:02 PM God is what happens when you give a narcissist a gun. His entire thing and with almost any deity for that matter is an ego trip. It's not about how God can help others or change or learn. It's about: "I am the law, I am the ruler, what I say goes and if you don't do exactly as I say I will end you. You have no choice, no correction. I am the best and you will never be better than me." and if anyone disagrees he gets rid of them. It's like a bratty child who breaks his own toys just so nobody else can have it. It's like if I can't have fun than nobody can have fun because...again I'm just better than everyone. it is funny but you are sayin this without any proper knowledge . Read the whole bible without any preconception. You have an opinion yeah we respect it, but you would better not state anything contradiction.... It is like I say : offtopic Well Piccolo is the strongest in DBZ because he fused with kami and a kami > everybody you know what Im sayin Oh yeah I dont mean it as an offense



EMIYA	May 17 2014, 05:28 PM Post #72
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Once you explain how all these terrible and foolish things God does can make sense, then we can start talking because that's the difference religion non religion is going to have. It's a difference between logic and fiction and God and the Bible comes off as nothing more than fiction and I'm sorry but that's hard fact of it all. I have yet to see a single person provide evidence for their points regarding religion and God that can't be just explained by natural forces of science and logic.



+ Pointer	May 17 2014, 05:35 PM Post #73
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Quote: . It's a difference between logic and fiction and God and the Bible comes off as nothing more than fiction and I'm sorry but that's hard fact of it all. All fiction eh, There were dozens of dozens of dozens of dozens of people who died in the name of Jesus or Lord So all of these people sacrificed their life for nothing, you can say they did it because their false beliefs, but would you sacrifice yourself for an illusion? I reckon not... In fact there was a man called Paul the apostle....check his life before and after his conversion. That is all I want to say Edited by Pointer, May 17 2014, 05:36 PM.



EMIYA	May 17 2014, 05:39 PM Post #74
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Yes it comes off as nothing more than fiction. Some of the people in the Bible were probably based upon real people and some things were probably based upon real events. But your going to be hard pressed to prove that the flood happened, or that the world was created in only a set number of days or any of that apparent miracles and supernatural points that happened in the Bible to the logical community.



* Ketchup Revenge	May 17 2014, 09:42 PM Post #75
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Cherry May 17 2014, 02:37 PM Steve May 17 2014, 02:25 PM God didn't give humans free will, Satan did. God wanted us to be slaves worshipping him forever, not even knowing right and wrong and Satan had Eve eat from the tree of knowledge, thus gaining knowledge of right and wrong. And then God punished humans, even though we literally did not know that eating from the tree was a "bad" thing. God is stupid, it's like a child given all that power. And clearly not all powerful if it didn't want us to have true free will or anything like that it could just simply have erased that from having ever happened, as far as Godly powers go it's pretty weak really. It's only power is creation, it can create whatever it wants but not do whatever it wants. It can't see the future or do anything perfect, if it could everything would be perfect by it's design, no Satan would have messed stuff up, no having to flood the world, no mistakes ever. If God is real then my best guess is that the other Gods just kicked it out of their domain and left it to mess around because it's the runt of the litter. God wanted us to be programmable and it failed. Just look at that statement, God FAILED. The idea that God would punish us, for its mistakes leaves me with no respect for it. Other than me being alive right now but for only 60-80 years or so and that sucks. Every bad thing in this universe is God's fault if it really is the creator so it should be the only thing punished in hell, it should have just made us and everything else properly but I guess it couldn't since it isn't all powerful. i suggest you to re read the genesis . Then you might realise where your points needs some correction. God forbade adam and eve to eat from that tree. And also satan has nothing to do with free will . All it did was manipulating a curious woman A mobster complex which consists of the logic of "do what I want, or suffer forever" is hardly classifiable as "free will". Something also worth mentioning is that if you honestly think about it, on one hand, you have one guy who tells you that he's all powerful and all-knowing, and refuses to let you question it. On the other hand, you have a tempter who encourages you to find out for yourself. Who honestly sounds like the enemy here? What's the point of giving someone free will if you never intended to allow them to do what they wanted in the first place?
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


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