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- How strong is SSJ Vegeta to Lazuli
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| How strong is SSJ Vegeta to Lazuli | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 12 2014, 11:09 PM (2,339 Views) | |
| + Yusuke | May 13 2014, 12:42 AM Post #16 |
 
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Also, SSJ Vegeta thinks Imperfect Cell @Gingertown is a big deal when that Cell admits inferiority to both 17 and 18 throwing any argument of SSJ Vegeta >= Android 18 or even Android 18 ~ SSJ Vegeta out the window. Their should be a pretty substantial gap based on that. |
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May 13 2014, 12:49 AM Post #17 |
 
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How could he be twice as strong, they are constantly grouped together even after Vegeta & Co. fought them. Doesn't make sense, in my opinion. Edited by StrawHatCrew, May 13 2014, 12:49 AM.
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| + Clearin | May 13 2014, 12:52 AM Post #18 |
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Of course they're grouped together, they're both part of the same group... They've been grouped together since Trunks told them about the Androids. Android 16 is grouped in with them long before anyone knew his power. Grouping them together has nothing to do with their power, it's to do with the fact they're literally a group. |
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May 13 2014, 12:54 AM Post #19 |
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No, they aren't only grouped together as that but also in-terms of power if #17 was really 2x stronger than #18 wouldn't Vegeta or Piccolo have noted anything (after they fought him)?! The same way AT showed #16 was far above the android twins. Edited by StrawHatCrew, May 13 2014, 12:58 AM.
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| + Clearin | May 13 2014, 01:00 AM Post #20 |
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No, because it's not all that important to note. Both Androids together are the threat, both of them far exceed the power of all the current fighters. All the quotes that "group" them together in terms of power only say how strong they are compared to the actual Z fighters, there isn't a quote that says they themselves are close in power. In fact Android 17 himself pretty much states that they aren't close in power: No.17: “What?! Looks like Doctor Gero screwed up again. Your radar is broken. There’s no power in the world that rivals mine.” And furthermore, the entire reason #18 is weaker than #17 is because Dr Gero made #17 too powerful and he didn't listen to orders. Why would he think making #18 10% weaker than #17 would fix this huge problem? |
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May 13 2014, 01:03 AM Post #21 |
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So what happened to the Future Androids they aren't noted to be weaker than 1 another, either after Trunks fights/beats? Also ImPerct Cell's statement about not being able to beat him & Piccolo saying that he couldn't beat them together means that they must be at-least in the same tier of power. Edited by StrawHatCrew, May 13 2014, 01:04 AM.
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| + Clearin | May 13 2014, 01:08 AM Post #22 |
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The future Androids are different powers altogether, and I guess there's nothing saying there's a power big power difference between them, but there's also nothing that says they're close in power, at least not that I remember. So it's a guess either way. Logically Dr Gero would have made #18 weaker after #17 didn't disobey due to too much power, though.
Piccolo couldn't beat them together even if #18 was a lot weaker than #17. Piccolo is fighting pretty much on equal grounds with #17 and quickly starts getting a disadvantage due to stamina loss, adding another fighter just gives #17 a bigger advantage. |
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| + Saiyan Paladin | May 13 2014, 01:08 AM Post #23 |
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I don't think she was way ahead of Vegeta, but the gap is big enough for her to beat him without trouble (If she was going all out from the start). Something like; No. 18 - 10 SSj Vegeta - 7 SSj Trunks - 6 |
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May 13 2014, 01:14 AM Post #24 |
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@Clearin: OK so what about #16 saying that Piccolo rivals both #17 & #18, if #17 was that much more powerful than #18, he'd only be rivaling 1 of them.
Edited by StrawHatCrew, May 13 2014, 01:14 AM.
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| + Clearin | May 13 2014, 01:17 AM Post #25 |
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"You two" as in both of them. Again, they are a literal group so they're going to be grouped together. Piccolo would rival them if they fought together, though he would be at a disadvantage. The fact is right after that line, #17 says no one rivals him. You can't get any more clear than that. And it just makes sense on a logical level for Dr Gero to make #18 more than just "a little bit" weaker. I don't even care if they are that far apart, but there really isn't anything that flatout says they're close in power while we have a direct un-contradicted line saying they aren't. |
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| SSJ | May 13 2014, 01:19 AM Post #26 |
 
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16 says that Piccolo rivals both 17 and 18, so they must be close. Edit: didn't see that that was just brought up. Let me think of another point. Edited by SSJ, May 13 2014, 01:19 AM.
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May 13 2014, 01:20 AM Post #27 |
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What are you saying, that was clearly a power statement. He said he rivaled both #17 & #18 nothing else. What does it mean in your opinion. ...& #16 is rather reliable (he said he & Cell had almost equal power & actually proved it), whereas #17 has shown to be cocky (maybe a little bit of conjecture but it works here). Edited by StrawHatCrew, May 13 2014, 01:22 AM.
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| SSJ | May 13 2014, 01:23 AM Post #28 |
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The thing is, 17 thinks very highly of himself, and he has a very cocky personality. Even when he was clearly outmatched by Cell, he thought that if he remained with 16 they would be unbeatable. So even if 17 has a small advantage over 18, he would still consider himself to be "unrivalled". Even when he was fighting with Piccolo he didn't want to believe that someone was as strong as himself. He just has some sort of superiority complex going on. |
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| + Clearin | May 13 2014, 01:24 AM Post #29 |
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What I mean is, he doesn't say Piccolo rivals "Android 17 and Android 18" he says he rivals "You two". Since they two are a combined threat, not separate threats, they're grouped together, just like any other time people talk about them. I'd be happy to accept that #16's line is a hint that they're close in power, depending on how you take it, because it certainly could be taken to mean both of them separately, but #17's line directly after it destroys that meaning and you have to look for the others. #18 was right next to #17 when he said that, and #16 could have easily corrected him, if anything Toriyama might have added that line directly after to remove the ambiguity of #16's line. And then you have the logic side of things of course which I've already mentioned. |
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May 13 2014, 01:26 AM Post #30 |
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I think, you'd be twisting statements just so that #17 could be a lot stronger than #18. #16's line is clear enough for me to say they are both around the same tier. |
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