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How strong are Pui Pui and Yakon?
Topic Started: May 9 2014, 03:49 AM (6,569 Views)
+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

Yami Marik
May 19 2014, 02:21 PM
AsuraV
May 19 2014, 12:35 PM
What proof do we have that base Saiyans have reached Freeza, if anything is more likely the opposite way also about the latest revelations.
-The fact Base Kids were on par with #18.
-The fact Kaioshin stated he would most likely lose in a fight with a Base Goku and Kaioshin stated he could oneshot Frieza.
-The fact Kaioshin was afraid to fight Yakon in one on one and yet Base Goku prove to be a match for him.

Many things to say my friend.
- 18 could have been holding back. Hard to prove either way.
- Kaioshin might have thought about SSJ Goku. He didn't know about the 'No-SSJ' rule.
- Kaioshin might have overrated Yakon, just based on reputation.
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SSJ
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There is so much conjecture in that though.

"He might have this, he might have that".

Why not just take it like it's shown. Toriyama seems to want to make it clear that the Saiyans are better than everyone.
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+ Majin Vegeta
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Emmeth
May 19 2014, 02:23 PM
Yami Marik
May 19 2014, 02:21 PM
AsuraV
May 19 2014, 12:35 PM
What proof do we have that base Saiyans have reached Freeza, if anything is more likely the opposite way also about the latest revelations.
-The fact Base Kids were on par with #18.
-The fact Kaioshin stated he would most likely lose in a fight with a Base Goku and Kaioshin stated he could oneshot Frieza.
-The fact Kaioshin was afraid to fight Yakon in one on one and yet Base Goku prove to be a match for him.

Many things to say my friend.
- 18 could have been holding back. Hard to prove either way.
- Kaioshin might have thought about SSJ Goku. He didn't know about the 'No-SSJ' rule.
- Kaioshin might have overrated Yakon, just based on reputation.
-I honestly don't see a reason for her to hold back after she saw the great power of the Base Kids.
-Agreed here.
-Yeah he "might" but I don't think so, I haven't read the part if the manga, but I remeber Kaioshin describing to the saiyans some characteristics about Yakon, he should know about he's power as well.
Edited by Majin Vegeta, May 19 2014, 02:34 PM.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

Yami Marik
May 19 2014, 02:32 PM
-I honestly don't see a reason for her to hold back after see saw the great power of the Base Kids.
*sigh*

I've tried so many times to explain this. I feel like I'm not getting through to anyone.

The 'great power' doesn't have to be on par with Android 18's full power to be impressive. What we saw in the manga was the Masked Fighter jumping head-on into a fight with Android 18. She defended herself without much issue before they proceeded into the air. They fought for a few seconds before 18 knocked the Masked Fighter down to make a crater in the platform. The Masked Fighter flies back up and immediately transforms. What we get is 3 pages where they fight and 1 where Android 18 fires a ki blast. She's in control the whole time.

I'll give you this, Android 18 does note that the Masked Fighter has tremendous power, but again that doesn't have to mean they are on her level. The only piece of tidbit that can turn the tide is this:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P12.3
Trunks: “Don’t let your guard down, Goten…I heard that Kuririn’s wife was stronger than our papas a long time ago…”
Goten: “Ye-yeah, I know…!”


However, this is very vague and doesn't have to mean anything.


Oh, look at that... I went off-topic :o

Should've posted this somewhere else :)
Edited by Emmeth, May 19 2014, 02:42 PM.
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Sorry I didn't know you expalned this many times, I wasn't here for some time :p
But I guess I could maybe agree with you're points and she may have hold back, but to be honest that still doesn't change my opinion about the place event of the kids, which determines where guys like Pui Pui and Yakon are.
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SSJ
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These posts settle it for me.


http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8935866&t=8446238
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8935891&t=8446238
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Alex D. Boss
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Emmeth
May 19 2014, 02:41 PM
Yami Marik
May 19 2014, 02:32 PM
-I honestly don't see a reason for her to hold back after see saw the great power of the Base Kids.
*sigh*

I've tried so many times to explain this. I feel like I'm not getting through to anyone.

The 'great power' doesn't have to be on par with Android 18's full power to be impressive. What we saw in the manga was the Masked Fighter jumping head-on into a fight with Android 18. She defended herself without much issue before they proceeded into the air. They fought for a few seconds before 18 knocked the Masked Fighter down to make a crater in the platform. The Masked Fighter flies back up and immediately transforms. What we get is 3 pages where they fight and 1 where Android 18 fires a ki blast. She's in control the whole time.

I'll give you this, Android 18 does note that the Masked Fighter has tremendous power, but again that doesn't have to mean they are on her level. The only piece of tidbit that can turn the tide is this:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P12.3
Trunks: “Don’t let your guard down, Goten…I heard that Kuririn’s wife was stronger than our papas a long time ago…”
Goten: “Ye-yeah, I know…!”


However, this is very vague and doesn't have to mean anything.


Oh, look at that... I went off-topic :o

Should've posted this somewhere else :)

That quote doesn't explain anything , Yami doesn't have a reason to look at that. The Ssj's at that time were much weaker , and the kids just estimated how strong 18 is.

It is stated that they were on par , shown that the kids aren't far away from 18 let alone 18 holding back for no single reason.

@ Kaioshin thinking about Goku:

Show me one proof where Kaioshin knows about Goku's SSJ abilities , and one argument where he think that he is above Vegeta. IIl wait.
Edited by Alex D. Boss, May 19 2014, 02:55 PM.
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Alex KloonBoss
May 19 2014, 02:53 PM
Show me one proof where Kaioshin knows about Goku's SSJ abilities , and one argument where he think that he is above Vegeta. IIl wait.
They knew about Gohan's ability to turn SSJ. Why would they think Goku couldn't?


Also, the whole 18/Base Kids thing... Forget it, you are obviously either missing my point or completely ignoring it. I'll save it for another day :)
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Emmeth
May 19 2014, 02:58 PM
Alex KloonBoss
May 19 2014, 02:53 PM
Show me one proof where Kaioshin knows about Goku's SSJ abilities , and one argument where he think that he is above Vegeta. IIl wait.
They knew about Gohan's ability to turn SSJ. Why would they think Goku couldn't?


Also, the whole 18/Base Kids thing... Forget it, you are obviously either missing my point or completely ignoring it. I'll save it for another day :)

What makes Kaioshin think that Vegeta couldn't defeat Pocus on his own?

At the 18/Base Kids thing , you are the one who is missing the point and completely ignoring it.
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Alex KloonBoss
May 19 2014, 03:00 PM
What makes Kaioshin think that Vegeta couldn't defeat Pocus on his own?

At the 18/Base Kids thing , you are the one who is missing the point and completely ignoring it.
Kaioshin overestimates his enemies.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I am trying to add some discussion to a controversial debate. I'm not saying I am right or are having an easy time convincing anyone about my view of the fight. I'm letting you know that you can't outright prove me wrong.
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"Kaioshin overestimate his enemies"

Okay this is a conjecture. Why we don't we roll by what AT wrotes for us.

If you believe that Frieza > BS , then you should prove that Kaioshin > BS.
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Alex KloonBoss
May 19 2014, 03:10 PM
"Kaioshin overestimate his enemies"

Okay this is a conjecture. Why we don't we roll by what AT wrotes for us.

If you believe that Frieza > BS , then you should prove that Kaioshin > BS.
I can't prove it, but I can show indications:

Whenever he estimates and opponent during the Babidi Saga, it always comes down to Babidi and his magic. Not once does he actually comment on Pocus' strength. He does note that he might have underestimated the saiyans, but this doesn't have to mean they are above him.

When it comes to Yakon, he clearly hasn't met the best before, so it's safe to assume he's estimating out of reputation. While this doesn't prove that Kaioshin is stronger than Base Saiyans, it doesn't prove that he's below them either.

Like I said, it all boils down to Babidi's magic.
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AsuraV
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Yami Marik
May 19 2014, 02:21 PM
AsuraV
May 19 2014, 12:35 PM
What proof do we have that base Saiyans have reached Freeza, if anything is more likely the opposite way also about the latest revelations.
-The fact Base Kids were on par with #18.
-The fact Kaioshin stated he would most likely lose in a fight with a Base Goku and Kaioshin stated he could oneshot Frieza.
-The fact Kaioshin was afraid to fight Yakon in one on one and yet Base Goku prove to be a match for him.

Many things to say my friend.


Kaiohshin after the death of Kibito becomes super cautious , concerned that the injuries sustained by him and saiyans can awaken Buu , the deity could very well face Yakon before they are transported to the darkness's planet.

You forgot that Goku at 25 budokai when meets Kaiohshin says immediatly can't win without SSJ stage , and after Piccolo informs us that Kaioshin is by far superior to him , therefore Kaiohshin >>>>> Base Saiyans

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AsuraV
May 19 2014, 03:53 PM
Yami Marik
May 19 2014, 02:21 PM
AsuraV
May 19 2014, 12:35 PM
What proof do we have that base Saiyans have reached Freeza, if anything is more likely the opposite way also about the latest revelations.
-The fact Base Kids were on par with #18.
-The fact Kaioshin stated he would most likely lose in a fight with a Base Goku and Kaioshin stated he could oneshot Frieza.
-The fact Kaioshin was afraid to fight Yakon in one on one and yet Base Goku prove to be a match for him.

Many things to say my friend.


Kaiohshin after the death of Kibito becomes super cautious , concerned that the injuries sustained by him and saiyans can awaken Buu , the deity could very well face Yakon before they are transported to the darkness's planet.

You forgot that Goku at 25 budokai when meets Kaiohshin says immediatly can't win without SSJ stage , and after Piccolo informs us that Kaioshin is by far superior to him , therefore Kaiohshin >>>>> Base Saiyans

I'd like to see one iota of proof that claims Kaioshin can beat Yakon.


Kaioshin can't be sensed, so all of what you posted was irrelevant.
Edited by SSJ, May 19 2014, 03:59 PM.
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I don't think so there is evidence that Kaioshin powers and telekinesis can block Gohan SSJ2 and Yakon is far from the only SSJ Goku .
Edited by AsuraV, May 19 2014, 04:07 PM.
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