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How strong are Pui Pui and Yakon?
Topic Started: May 9 2014, 03:49 AM (6,571 Views)
* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

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May 11 2014, 12:36 AM
Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 11:58 PM
Well, he was told by Pocus that the more he got hurt, the more energy would go to Boo. So I'd hazard a guess that Goku would get his serious pants on to avoid giving any energy.
Again... only as serious as he has to be. The only reason I push this is because Goku had so much power hidden... even discounting SSJ3, he could've simply turned SSJ1/SSJ2 and 1 hit Yakon. His goal was to enjoy the battle without losing any energy [to Buu]... so he adjusted accordingly.

Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 11:58 PM
It's the statement and the feats, though. It was Dark, yes, but that's no real excuse. If you'll recall the early Android Saga and Goku's battle with Freeza, a lot of emphasis was placed on sensing energy and using that in a fight instead of purely your eyesight. He would've been able to sense Yakon and been able to respond in kind if he had a massive advantage.
I agree with the whole darkness not really giving Yakon an advantage at all... that was made clear... hence why I never brought it up.

Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 11:58 PM
You could argue that he was caught off-guard, and you'd be right, but that's just a testament to Yakon's speed, no?
Yes and no. Yakon was indeed faster than Goku anticipated [as stated]... and suddenly revealed large, hidden claws... and yet Goku dodged.
Was simply enjoying the fight Goku's aim, though? Piccolo and Krillin had just been turned to stone and the only way to save them was to defeat Dabra, who they'd get to by defeating all of the minions that Babidi threw at them. Plus Vegeta was eager to get things over with to fight with Goku, and you could argue that Goku felt the same way.

I'm not denying that Goku's weaker or slower than Yakon; his superiority in those regards is undeniable. It's just that the statement from Gohan comes after Goku's turned Super Saiyan, so he'd presumably have a grasp of Base Goku's full power. Plus, there's this;

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P1.4-6
Context: after Babidi says to send Yakon to Stage 2
Dabra: “Yakon!? You’re already going to use Yakon on Stage 2!?”
Babidi: “…We probably shouldn’t underestimate those Earthlings…They did Pui-Pui in before he could inflict any damage at all…”
Dabra: “…I see. But with Yakon as their opponent, they’ll all be defeated instantly. I won’t get to have any fun.”

The 'energy' that Dabra sensed in the Saiyans was stronger than Piccolo's, yet he still thinks that Yakon would be able to deal with all of them with no problems at all. You could discount this as Dabra being idiotic, and I'd agree, but the fact that he says this after he takes his reading has to mean something.
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+ Kyouks
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Yakon was naked just like our friend. Granted, Babidi was the big boss, but I sense bias regardless.
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Naked Snake
May 11 2014, 12:52 AM
Was simply enjoying the fight Goku's aim, though? Piccolo and Krillin had just been turned to stone and the only way to save them was to defeat Dabra, who they'd get to by defeating all of the minions that Babidi threw at them.
Very rarely is "enjoying the fight" off the table for Goku... even when Freeza outright kills Krillin and threatens the Earth, Goku allows him to reach 100%, allows him to live [to: live with the shame and improve himself to try again], and has [in my opinion] an expression of sadness that borders on pain when he "destroys" Freeza.

Naked Snake
May 11 2014, 12:52 AM
Plus Vegeta was eager to get things over with to fight with Goku, and you could argue that Goku felt the same way.
I could argue the opposite... personally, I do not believe Goku ever saw Vegeta as his "rival"; this is made painfully clear during the battle with Kid Buu. Nearly every battle, and thus every opponent, offers a chance for development and enjoyment.

Naked Snake
May 11 2014, 12:52 AM
I'm not denying that Goku's weaker or slower than Yakon; his superiority in those regards is undeniable. It's just that the statement from Gohan comes after Goku's turned Super Saiyan, so he'd presumably have a grasp of Base Goku's full power.
If he had a grasp of Goku's power, he'd realize Goku has an obvious advantage and that darkness isn't going to make a difference in the long run.

Naked Snake
May 11 2014, 12:52 AM
Plus, there's this;

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P1.4-6
Context: after Babidi says to send Yakon to Stage 2
Dabra: “Yakon!? You’re already going to use Yakon on Stage 2!?”
Babidi: “…We probably shouldn’t underestimate those Earthlings…They did Pui-Pui in before he could inflict any damage at all…”
Dabra: “…I see. But with Yakon as their opponent, they’ll all be defeated instantly. I won’t get to have any fun.”

The 'energy' that Dabra sensed in the Saiyans was stronger than Piccolo's, yet he still thinks that Yakon would be able to deal with all of them with no problems at all. You could discount this as Dabra being idiotic, and I'd agree, but the fact that he says this after he takes his reading has to mean something.
I really wish it did mean something... but Dabura/Babidi/Kaioshin are constantly shown to misjudge the Saiyans power.

Dabura believes: Yakon >> The 3 [Underestimated] Base Saiyans >~ Energy gathered from SSJ2 Gohan

He also believes: Dabura > Majin Buu - You could argue that "Buu's ki is a lie" and all that jazz... but Gohan/Goku felt it clear enough.. Majin Buu was an obvious threat while Dabura was not.

...so let's leave Dabura's power judgement abilities out of this discussion for now.
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Nanho
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Naked Snake
May 11 2014, 12:52 AM
The 'energy' that Dabra sensed in the Saiyans was stronger than Piccolo's, yet he still thinks that Yakon would be able to deal with all of them with no problems at all. You could discount this as Dabra being idiotic, and I'd agree, but the fact that he says this after he takes his reading has to mean something.
Dabura cant sense ****!

Context: after goku goes super saiyan.

Babidi: ''Whats happened to him?'' ''Somethings changed about him!''
Dabura: ''So? hes just glowing''


Ahh! That crapy spectrum wasn't working for me yesterday, and I decided to trust my memory yet again (now you know my memory is pretty bad :lol: ), also I was rushing as time is always against me. Funny thing, I remembered, intensely, yokan loosing very bad in that fight, againt goku at base. And I remembered babidi pissed trying to give him an advantage. But I remembered wrong obviously. Yokan didnt seem to be doing that bad. He surprise goku and gohan a bit with his speed. Even though its mostly because of his size, Yakon would have to be pretty close in speed with goku for it to be notable. And we all know in db speed is always(or most of the time) relative to strength. so if Yokan is very close in speed to goku, then they should be as close in strength.


I'd put yokan just below or on the same level as #18;(''>''' moderate gap ''>>'' Big gap '' >>>'' Stomp) Base goku> #18>~ Yokan.

Pui pui.. somewhere between Raditz and 1st form Frieaza; Still undecided.
Edited by Nanho, May 11 2014, 04:17 AM.
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Goku-Swag
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Emmeth
May 10 2014, 03:12 PM
Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 03:10 PM
goku was truning back on him and he sneaked a trick move , but it missed. that was it
No, he didn't. Goku was facing Yakon at the time.

gok was turned his back on yawkon and didnt saw the attack , it wa sunexpected . yakon never landed a hit on goku , goku wanted to warming up and can kill yakon easily.
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Goku-Swag
May 11 2014, 12:44 PM
gok was turned his back on yawkon and didnt saw the attack , it wa sunexpected . yakon never landed a hit on goku , goku wanted to warming up and can kill yakon easily.
In the anime, sure. But even in the anime he was fighting and while fighting Goku is never off-guard. Yakon was fast enough to slash at him, which says a lot.
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Emmeth
May 11 2014, 12:46 PM
Goku-Swag
May 11 2014, 12:44 PM
gok was turned his back on yawkon and didnt saw the attack , it wa sunexpected . yakon never landed a hit on goku , goku wanted to warming up and can kill yakon easily.
In the anime, sure. But even in the anime he was fighting and while fighting Goku is never off-guard. Yakon was fast enough to slash at him, which says a lot.

yakon didnt do anything to put him close to goku. i put yakon at ssj goku frieza saga level. and pui pui at nappa level.
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Alex D. Boss
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Pui Pui is stronger than Kaioshin and at SSJ Vegeta Android arc tier

Yakon at 16 tier. It fits.
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Gracek90
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Is it confirmed that PuiPui is stronger than Kaioshin? It was never stated anywhere and his feats put him at the level of low class saiyan. Only because Kaioshin stated that Babidi gathers strongest fighters in the universe, I was generous enough to put him at 180 000
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Gracek90
May 14 2014, 07:10 AM
Is it confirmed that PuiPui is stronger than Kaioshin? It was never stated anywhere and his feats put him at the level of low class saiyan. Only because Kaioshin stated that Babidi gathers strongest fighters in the universe, I was generous enough to put him at 180 000
If you could use conquering beyond Earth-level gravity as a measuring stick, his "feats" could put him above [Pre-RoSaT] Gohan. Also, would you consider Yamu/Spopovich some of the "stronger fighters in the Universe?""

As long as he's well below Vegeta, it doesn't matter where he is... as that is the only comparison we have.
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Alex D. Boss
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May 14 2014, 07:23 AM
Gracek90
May 14 2014, 07:10 AM
Is it confirmed that PuiPui is stronger than Kaioshin? It was never stated anywhere and his feats put him at the level of low class saiyan. Only because Kaioshin stated that Babidi gathers strongest fighters in the universe, I was generous enough to put him at 180 000
If you could use conquering beyond Earth-level gravity as a measuring stick, his "feats" could put him above [Pre-RoSaT] Gohan. Also, would you consider Yamu/Spopovich some of the "stronger fighters in the Universe?""

As long as he's well below Vegeta, it doesn't matter where he is... as that is the only comparison we have.

You can compare Pocus with Shin
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Gracek90
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You can't. They never fought with each other and both know nothing about their power, thus it is no way to compare them both.
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If you could use conquering beyond Earth-level gravity as a measuring stick, his "feats" could put him above [Pre-RoSaT] Gohan. Also, would you consider Yamu/Spopovich some of the "stronger fighters in the Universe?""
Even so he would be still in low milions. Yamu and Spopovitch are low but they were picked for specific quest, thus Babidi did not care about their power.
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'Kaioshin was scared of Pocus, therefore he is weaker.'

That's like me saying I don't like Kobe Beef, even if I haven't tried it before.

Kaioshin and Pocus had never seen eachother before.

Chapter: 441 (DBZ 247), P4.4
Context: as Videl fights Spopovitch
Goku: “Like I thought, that Spopovitch guy is weird…He seems too fine, despite the fact that he should have taken so much damage, and I can’t sense any life from him…”
Note: ‘life’, in this case is seiki, written with the kanji for ‘life’ and ‘ki’.


If this quote stands true, the Z-Fighters can't sense their opponent and Kaioshin can't either. Kaioshin doesn't directly speak about Pocus' power, but about Babidi and his ability to find strong enemies.

My conclusion and the most likely case, is that Kaioshin is talking about Babidi and his magic. Pocus could be even weaker than Freeza, and Kaioshin wouldn't know.
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th only problem of this logic that babidi said Yakon is about 8 times stronger than puipui ...Base vegeta godstomped pui pui but goku needed a ssj2 for yakon....weird isnt it

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Cherry
May 14 2014, 01:41 PM
Base vegeta godstomped pui pui but goku needed a ssj2 for yakon....weird isnt it
Goku didn't need SSJ2 for Yakon. If Yakon didn't have the light-sucking ability, SSJ would've been enough.
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