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How strong are Pui Pui and Yakon?
Topic Started: May 9 2014, 03:49 AM (6,572 Views)
SSJ
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Vertical
May 10 2014, 02:07 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:06 PM
Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

...only means: Yakon > Gohan
It's showing that Gohan felt that Goku needed help to win in Base.
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Goku-Swag
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Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:09 PM
Vertical
May 10 2014, 02:07 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:06 PM
Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

...only means: Yakon > Gohan
It's showing that Gohan felt that Goku needed help to win in Base.

Gohan is speaking of himself. he is weaker than goku , and he is trying to make sure that goku is saved.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 02:33 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:09 PM
Vertical
May 10 2014, 02:07 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:06 PM
Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

...only means: Yakon > Gohan
It's showing that Gohan felt that Goku needed help to win in Base.

Gohan is speaking of himself. he is weaker than goku , and he is trying to make sure that goku is saved.
Author is speaking for Gohan. Author thinks Goku is if not even with Yakon, just slightly below.
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Goku-Swag
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Emmeth
May 10 2014, 02:49 PM
Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 02:33 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:09 PM
Vertical
May 10 2014, 02:07 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:06 PM
Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

...only means: Yakon > Gohan
It's showing that Gohan felt that Goku needed help to win in Base.

Gohan is speaking of himself. he is weaker than goku , and he is trying to make sure that goku is saved.
Author is speaking for Gohan. Author thinks Goku is if not even with Yakon, just slightly below.

Goku never got a got from yakon. he only messed his shirt up , thts it. goku hitted yakon , and then yakon needed a light show.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 02:51 PM
Emmeth
May 10 2014, 02:49 PM
Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 02:33 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:09 PM
Vertical
May 10 2014, 02:07 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:06 PM
Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

...only means: Yakon > Gohan
It's showing that Gohan felt that Goku needed help to win in Base.

Gohan is speaking of himself. he is weaker than goku , and he is trying to make sure that goku is saved.
Author is speaking for Gohan. Author thinks Goku is if not even with Yakon, just slightly below.

Goku never got a got from yakon. he only messed his shirt up , thts it. goku hitted yakon , and then yakon needed a light show.
There's no denying that Babidi uses dirty tricks to win (and Yakon has a pretty useful ability), but Yakon caught Goku off guard, which isn't easy to do. Besides, the fight was so short before Goku started using his SSjin ability that it's impossible to sya much about it. The only thing we have is Gohan wanting to team up on Yakon when Goku was still in Base. This Goku praise is getting out of hand.
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Goku-Swag
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It says not much about for yakon becoming close to goku , because thats wasanot shown in the fight. goku didnt saw yakon messing his shirt off , and he was never shown to be eqial agianst gooku
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+ Emmeth
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Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 03:02 PM
goku didnt saw yakon messing his shirt off
Doesn't that say a lot though? How easy do you think it's to catch Goku off-guard, as he's looking at you even?
Edited by Emmeth, May 10 2014, 03:06 PM.
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Goku-Swag
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Emmeth
May 10 2014, 03:05 PM
Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 03:02 PM
goku didnt saw yakon messing his shirt off
Doesn't that say a lot though? How easy do you think it's to catch Goku off-guard, as he's looking at you even?

yakon never made goku troueble! he didnt land a hit on him , goku was truning back on him and he sneaked a trick move , but it missed. that was it
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

Goku-Swag
May 10 2014, 03:10 PM
goku was truning back on him and he sneaked a trick move , but it missed. that was it
No, he didn't. Goku was facing Yakon at the time.
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Vertical
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Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:09 PM
Vertical
May 10 2014, 02:07 PM
Super Saiyan
May 10 2014, 02:06 PM
Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

...only means: Yakon > Gohan
It's showing that Gohan felt that Goku needed help to win in Base.
Yes, Gohan believes that Goku could use some help... that doesn't mean he needs it. The only thing that quote solidifies is "Yakon > Gohan", which you could extend to "Yakon >~ [Gohan's vision of] Goku > Gohan"... which is not necessarily [Actual] Goku.

Still no concrete placement of Goku from that quote so we have to go to the feats; landing a [playful] hit, and avoiding Yakon's claw attack.

So, Yakon, who is faster than expected and has the element of surprise, attacks... and Goku dodges (albeit by the cloth of his undershirt)... implying an advantage.
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SSJ
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I don't disagree on the advantage, but I do believe it is very close.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Gohan himself isn't leagues below Goku, so the fact that 'Yakon > Base Gohan' means that Yakon can be close to Base Gohan. Base Goku > Yakon > Base Gohan, something like;

Goku : 100
Yakon :75/80
Gohan : 60

That would work with me, though I'm not the decider of such things. Goku had an advantage, no doubt, but it wasn't big enough to dispatch of Yakon easily, otherwise he would've done so, even when he couldn't see.
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Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 06:15 PM
Goku had an advantage, no doubt, but it wasn't big enough to dispatch of Yakon easily, otherwise he would've done so, even when he couldn't see.
Would he though? Goku's been show on several occasions to battle at the level of his opponent simply to enjoy a battle and/or benefit from it... even while knowing he has an advantage (like, for example, still wearing weighted clothing).

As such, I still don't believe that quote can nail him down to a Yakon'ish level.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Well, he was told by Pocus that the more he got hurt, the more energy would go to Boo. So I'd hazard a guess that Goku would get his serious pants on to avoid giving any energy.

It's the statement and the feats, though. It was Dark, yes, but that's no real excuse. If you'll recall the early Android Saga and Goku's battle with Freeza, a lot of emphasis was placed on sensing energy and using that in a fight instead of purely your eyesight. He would've been able to sense Yakon and been able to respond in kind if he had a massive advantage. You could argue that he was caught off-guard, and you'd be right, but that's just a testament to Yakon's speed, no?
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Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 11:58 PM
Well, he was told by Pocus that the more he got hurt, the more energy would go to Boo. So I'd hazard a guess that Goku would get his serious pants on to avoid giving any energy.
Again... only as serious as he has to be. The only reason I push this is because Goku had so much power hidden... even discounting SSJ3, he could've simply turned SSJ1/SSJ2 and 1 hit Yakon. His goal was to enjoy the battle without losing any energy [to Buu]... so he adjusted accordingly.

Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 11:58 PM
It's the statement and the feats, though. It was Dark, yes, but that's no real excuse. If you'll recall the early Android Saga and Goku's battle with Freeza, a lot of emphasis was placed on sensing energy and using that in a fight instead of purely your eyesight. He would've been able to sense Yakon and been able to respond in kind if he had a massive advantage.
I agree with the whole darkness not really giving Yakon an advantage at all... that was made clear... hence why I never brought it up.

Naked Snake
May 10 2014, 11:58 PM
You could argue that he was caught off-guard, and you'd be right, but that's just a testament to Yakon's speed, no?
Yes and no. Yakon was indeed faster than Goku anticipated [as stated]... and suddenly revealed large, hidden claws... and yet Goku dodged.
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