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Ssj multiplier decreasing
Topic Started: May 5 2014, 04:30 AM (1,737 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96 May 5 2014, 04:30 AM Post #1
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 I don't know where people get the idea it gets smaller. Why would it even get smaller? They would barely be getting stronger if at all if the multiplier got smaller. Someone enlighten me please
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, May 5 2014, 04:30 AM.
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+ Saiyan Paladin May 5 2014, 04:49 AM Post #2
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 I see no reason for SSj to be anything less than 20x base power. (I use SEG multipliers) 50x is what the author said it was, yes he said originally it was going to be 10x, but he corrected himself when reminded of Kaio-ken x20. Kaio-ken and Oozaru kind of shove a 10x base multiplier away.

I understand people using different multipliers for SSj2 and 3, but regular SSj? I can't see any good reason for it to be less than 20x base because of Kaio-Ken x20.
Edited by Saiyan Paladin, May 5 2014, 04:51 AM.
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+ Yusuke May 5 2014, 04:49 AM Post #3
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 Because people like me believe that Saiyans got really strong in Base and that SSJ being lower works out fine given that Akira envisioned SSJ begin 10X Base.

I personally roll with a 5X SSJ multiplier Cell Saga onwards. 50X Base works fine as well.
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I see no reason for SSj to be anything less than 50x base power. This is what the author said it was, yes, he said originally it was going to be 10x, but he corrected himself when reminded of Kaio-ken x20. Kaio-ken and Oozaru kind of shove a 10x base multiplier away.

I understand people using different multipliers for SSj2 and 3, but regular SSj? I can't see any good reason for it to be less than 20x base because of Kaio-Ken x20.


Because Kaioken's strain would prove to be a nuisance for Goku not to mention he got SSJ2 fairly quickly thus taking away the need for a boost like that. Also, if your fine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 not being 2X and 4X, what's wrong with SSJ being lower than 50X Base?
Edited by Yusuke, May 5 2014, 04:51 AM.
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+ Saiyan Paladin May 5 2014, 04:57 AM Post #4
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Yusuke Urameshi
May 5 2014, 04:49 AM
Because people like me believe that Saiyans got really strong in Base and that SSJ being lower works out fine given that Akira envisioned SSJ begin 10X Base.

I personally roll with a 5X SSJ multiplier Cell Saga onwards. 50X Base works fine as well.
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I see no reason for SSj to be anything less than 50x base power. This is what the author said it was, yes, he said originally it was going to be 10x, but he corrected himself when reminded of Kaio-ken x20. Kaio-ken and Oozaru kind of shove a 10x base multiplier away.

I understand people using different multipliers for SSj2 and 3, but regular SSj? I can't see any good reason for it to be less than 20x base because of Kaio-Ken x20.


Because Kaioken's strain would prove to be a nuisance for Goku not to mention he got SSJ2 fairly quickly thus taking away the need for a boost like that. Also, if your fine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 not being 2X and 4X, what's wrong with SSJ being lower than 50X Base?


I'm not saying anything lower than 50x is wrong, I just don't see/agree with how it could be, based off of the techniques the Saiyan's used/have used.

You're entitled to use whatever multiplier works for you, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't agree with a 5x multiplier.

My question;
You use a 5x multiplier, so if Goku's base vs Cell is a 1, his SSj would be a 5, right?
Let's say Cell is a 5.5-6 based on his advantage. Why wouldn't Goku just revert to his base and go all Kaio-Ken x20 on Cell's butt right then and there? He used a x20 Kaio-Ken vs Freeza when his base was 3,000,000. Who is to say he couldn't take the Kaio-Ken further at that point? His base form must be way ahead of his past self (Freeza), correct?
Edited by Saiyan Paladin, May 5 2014, 05:00 AM.
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+ Yusuke May 5 2014, 05:09 AM Post #5
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Saiyan Paladin
May 5 2014, 04:57 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
May 5 2014, 04:49 AM
Because people like me believe that Saiyans got really strong in Base and that SSJ being lower works out fine given that Akira envisioned SSJ begin 10X Base.

I personally roll with a 5X SSJ multiplier Cell Saga onwards. 50X Base works fine as well.
Quote:
 

I see no reason for SSj to be anything less than 50x base power. This is what the author said it was, yes, he said originally it was going to be 10x, but he corrected himself when reminded of Kaio-ken x20. Kaio-ken and Oozaru kind of shove a 10x base multiplier away.

I understand people using different multipliers for SSj2 and 3, but regular SSj? I can't see any good reason for it to be less than 20x base because of Kaio-Ken x20.


Because Kaioken's strain would prove to be a nuisance for Goku not to mention he got SSJ2 fairly quickly thus taking away the need for a boost like that. Also, if your fine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 not being 2X and 4X, what's wrong with SSJ being lower than 50X Base?


I'm not saying anything lower than 50x is wrong, I just don't see/agree with how it could be, based off of the techniques the Saiyan's used/have used.

You're entitled to use whatever multiplier works for you, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't agree with a 5x multiplier.

My question;
You use a 5x multiplier, so if Goku's base vs Cell is a 1, his SSj would be a 5, right?
Let's say Cell is a 5.5-6 based on his advantage. Why wouldn't Goku just revert to his base and go all Kaio-Ken x20 on Cell's butt right then and there? He used a x20 Kaio-Ken vs Freeza when his base was 3,000,000. Who is to say he couldn't take the Kaio-Ken further at that point? His base form must be way ahead of his past self (Freeza), correct?
Problem with that is that Goku wasn't trying to beat Cell. He was only trying to get Gohan to get a good grasp at his techniques before he had to eventually fight Cell himself.

Even then, Cell still wasn't using close to his FP so if Goku decided to take the risk of uaing that level of Kaioken, Cell would have easily went FP and beat him.
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+ Saiyan Paladin May 5 2014, 05:20 AM Post #6
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 We really don't know exactly how much power Cell was using vs. Goku.

Like I said, I use SEG multiplier, so FP Cell has to fit somewhere between MSSj Gohan and SSj2 Gohan.

Say MSSj Gohan is a 10. SSj2 Would be a 20 then, for me.

Goku is inferior to Gohan, but by how much? I see him as an 8-8.5 to Gohan's 10.

FP Cell at a 15 fits nicely here. Say Goku is at 8, and he has a 5x SSj Multiplier. His base is a 1.375, if you multiply that by 20x, you get 27.5. His Kaio-Ken x20 would do some SERIOUS damage to Cell here, even if it strains his body, he could dish out a lot of punishment befre he's worn-out.

But, to each their own. Whatever works for you, I have no issues with that.
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+ Yusuke May 5 2014, 05:29 AM Post #7
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Saiyan Paladin
May 5 2014, 05:20 AM
We really don't know exactly how much power Cell was using vs. Goku.

Like I said, I use SEG multiplier, so FP Cell has to fit somewhere between MSSj Gohan and SSj2 Gohan.

Say MSSj Gohan is a 10. SSj2 Would be a 20 then, for me.

Goku is inferior to Gohan, but by how much? I see him as an 8-8.5 to Gohan's 10.

FP Cell at a 15 fits nicely here. Say Goku is at 8, and he has a 5x SSj Multiplier. His base is a 1.375, if you multiply that by 20x, you get 27.5. His Kaio-Ken x20 would do some SERIOUS damage to Cell here, even if it strains his body, he could dish out a lot of punishment befre he's worn-out.

But, to each their own. Whatever works for you, I have no issues with that.

FP Cell has to be at a level where the Z-Group were concerned for SSJ2 Gohan and MSSJ Gohan needs to be more powerful than that if he thought Goku was holding back against Cell.

It's very plausible that SSJ2 Gohan got a rage boost on top of his SSJ2 boost which is why FP Perfect Cell can fit in the gap quite well.

And like I said before, Goku wasn't trying to win the fight. He was demonstrating Cell's abilities to Gohan for his eventual fight with Cell.

SSJ being 50X Base is fine but so is 10X and 5X Base. That's what I want to get at.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans May 5 2014, 02:52 PM Post #8
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 It comes from nowhere other than a person's personal preference. I've never really liked the theory of the decreasing multiplier.
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Raiken May 5 2014, 03:33 PM Post #9
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 Maybe the true potential of SSJ is 50x, but unmastered (before MSSJ) they almost never get close to making use of the full 50x boost, compared to their 100% Base; because of the Base Power loss to perform the transformation and passive energy drain.
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+ Yusuke May 5 2014, 03:52 PM Post #10
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May 5 2014, 02:52 PM
It comes from nowhere other than a person's personal preference. I've never really liked the theory of the decreasing multiplier.
It comes from AT saying that he envisioned the SSJ multiplier lower.

The multiplier decreasing is just as feasible as it staying the same.
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* Ketchup Revenge May 5 2014, 04:53 PM Post #11
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

 All sources that we have saying that Super Saiyan has a 50x multiplier is non-canon.

Toriyama said he drew the Super Saiyan to look like 10x, that's usually the one I go with.
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+ Ssj3vegito96 May 5 2014, 05:09 PM Post #12
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 Toriyama was mistaken then. How is it possible that goku got any less than 40x stronger?
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+ Yusuke May 5 2014, 05:18 PM Post #13
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Ssj3vegito96
May 5 2014, 05:09 PM
Toriyama was mistaken then. How is it possible that goku got any less than 40x stronger?
Because it can happen, what is their to counter it?

SSJ wasn't really special after the RoSaT anyway. Their were other forms like SSJ2 and SSJ3 taking the spotlight from it so I don't see why SSJ should be a ridiculous amount stronger than SSJ2 and SSJ3.
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+ Ssj3vegito96 May 5 2014, 05:32 PM Post #14
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Yusuke Urameshi
May 5 2014, 05:18 PM
Ssj3vegito96
May 5 2014, 05:09 PM
Toriyama was mistaken then. How is it possible that goku got any less than 40x stronger?
Because it can happen, what is their to counter it?

SSJ wasn't really special after the RoSaT anyway. Their were other forms like SSJ2 and SSJ3 taking the spotlight from it so I don't see why SSJ should be a ridiculous amount stronger than SSJ2 and SSJ3.
It can't happen. Goku was using using kaioken x20 and it didn't do much to 50% frieza, or at least not as much ssj goku was doing.

Ssj not being special anymore doesn't make a difference
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+ Solid Snake May 5 2014, 05:33 PM Post #15
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 That 10x boost increase is non-sense, even if Akira meant it, the fight scene with SSJ Goku and Frieza 50% would destroy that line of thinking.

Goku had to use KKx20 + a Kamehameha combo to shake Frieza's guard but even then he managed to push it back.

If Goku just stayed with an inferior power-up, then he should have just given up after transforming into a SSJ.
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