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Closed
DBZ Debating Tips 101
Topic Started: May 4 2014, 12:43 AM (12,100 Views)
+ Saberoph
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That's saying don't use this Fan Translated site, but this Fan Translated is okay.

It's saying this Fanslation isn't reliable, but another one is... it's saying the same thing without saying it.
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No, there's a huge difference in that neither says "all are bad".

"Most are bad and should not be used for supporting arguments but this one is good and can be used for supporting arguments" - That's not a double standard because from the get-go (the very first word in-fact) it recognizes that not all are bad.

"All are bad and should not be used for supporting arguments. I use this one to support my argument" - That's a double standard.
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+ Saberoph
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I get your point, but there's another argument and that's the whole "If it's not an official version, then it's not reliable" and that's been thrown around on this site a lot.

That's how I see it, if it's not an official release of AT's work, then it shouldn't be used as something more reliable than AT's Manga, it should be considered just as reliable as the Diaz.
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+ Solid Snake
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滅Are you frightened?

Super Saiyan
Jun 1 2014, 08:59 PM
xGOKUdaFALLENx
May 30 2014, 12:32 AM
A minor question. Shouldn't Feats be more important than Statements?
I don't believe I said one was more important than the other.

Statements are really only good to is if they are uncontradicted, and when there are no feats available. Feats are good when there are no statements to go by, so I think they complement each other.
You didn't but the way your example is sought up I figured you wanted to imply they are. Guides and interviews are number 3 and are less more reliable than either statements and feats. If you were just going randomly when you made it then overlook this post.
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Master Saberoph
Jun 13 2014, 12:02 AM
I get your point, but there's another argument and that's the whole "If it's not an official version, then it's not reliable" and that's been thrown around on this site a lot.

That's how I see it, if it's not an official release of AT's work, then it shouldn't be used as something more reliable than AT's Manga, it should be considered just as reliable as the Diaz.
Gaining the "OFFICIAL" stamp does not automatically make something reliable. That's all there is to it.

These are translations we're talking about here... not supplementary material. So, what we're looking for isn't officially approved information... it's the most accurate translation of information already available.

If a person cannot understand Japanese [at a high level], then for English speakers Herms' translations are their best option. Official or not.

The Viz translation is a step below Herms in terms of accuracy... sometimes due to "localization"... sometimes due to simplification... sometimes just to fit the words in the bubbles... but it does it's job effectively enough.

I have not seen other translations near the accuracy of the two mentioned [regarding the DB Manga].


The point is... Toriyama-sensei signing off on a translation does not mean anything in these cases because he [likely] does not speak fluent English and cannot review the information himself... or [equally likely] has not sat with the translators as they translate... with personal input on each statement.
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+ Saberoph
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Good point, I've never looked at it like that... I guess it just bothered me that when someone would say one thing that isn't official isn't reliable, but then turn around and say something that was just as reliable as the first one but then say it is reliable, that I just looked at everything unofficial being as reliable as everything else.

Kind of how I am with Broli... which is a conversation for another Thread in another section.
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Professor Gohan
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Satire.

This is a good set of tips. #4 is really important. That's the one that shows who should be taken seriously or not.
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p123
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Number one tip for debating is please use common sense. As in, no one should have to explain to you the difference between Herms and fanslations on mangafox or whatever. Sure they are both fanslations, one is vastly superior to the next. Does it mean you should take Herms above all? Of course not. Use all of the source material and by god more important than the translation is the context people. So many people take a translation and run with it any which way. Common sense is key.
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+ Pyrus
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p123
Jun 22 2014, 04:22 PM
Number one tip for debating is please use common sense. As in, no one should have to explain to you the difference between Herms and fanslations on mangafox or whatever. Sure they are both fanslations, one is vastly superior to the next. Does it mean you should take Herms above all? Of course not. Use all of the source material and by god more important than the translation is the context people. So many people take a translation and run with it any which way. Common sense is key.
I can't tell you how many times people used to bring up that line from Trunks at the Budokai about his attack not killing #18...completely omitting the part where he says he'll suppress his blast.
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p123
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Yea that kind of debating makes me want to just not debate and put up a blog or something.
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+ Saberoph
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p123
Jun 22 2014, 04:22 PM
Number one tip for debating is please use common sense. As in, no one should have to explain to you the difference between Herms and fanslations on mangafox or whatever. Sure they are both fanslations, one is vastly superior to the next. Does it mean you should take Herms above all? Of course not. Use all of the source material and by god more important than the translation is the context people. So many people take a translation and run with it any which way. Common sense is key.
It wasn't about common sense though. I know what Herms is and how people view it, it was more of an attack on people use double standards in debates.

Also, just look at my last post in here and you see why my thought process was the way it was against Herms.
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Fearless Saiyajin
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Legendary of Super Saiyan

Thanks for the link of guidebooks.
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+ Saberoph
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Certain things have come to light and I've learned things I didn't know before, but I agree... Herms is a very reliable source and should be used.

I still stand by this Thread and think it really comes in handy when debating and it shouldn't be ignored either.

Yes I said that, don't faint.
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