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DBZ Debating Tips 101
Topic Started: May 4 2014, 12:43 AM (12,481 Views)
I Banged Sam
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I figured it would be nice to make a basic guide on how to effectively debate Dragonball. These are mostly lessons for newer members, lessons which I learned way back when.

1) Always Provide Evidence

In this field, evidence is a must. If you cannot provide evidence to support your opinion, then many people will not take you seriously. Now, there are two main types of evidence.


  • Statements: Statements are sentences that directly relate to the power level, speed, or abilities of a character. Unless the statement is contradicted by other forms of evidence, it can almost always be considered fact. You can find all of the important power statements right here.

  • Feats: Feats are events that physically occurred. An example of a feat would be Goku throwing Bulma's car during the beginning of Dragonball. You can compare the feats of characters to try to gauge how powerful they are.

  • Guidebooks/Interviews: Guidebooks can be used as supporting evidence. They often provide insight on topics that do not have clear answers, and also provide valuable information. Interviews can be used the same way. These interviews have been done by the creator of the manga Akira Toriyama, so they are very valuable sources of evidence. The Daizenshuu guidebooks as well as the Toriyama interviews can be found here.


2) Know what source you are using.

Dragonball/Z have been made in two different forms of media: manga and anime. The manga is the most canon resource that you can use, as it is the original story that was made by Toriyama. It is perfectly fine to use the anime as evidence, but just be sure to make it clear that you are using it. Many people do not take certain anime events seriously because they did not occur in the manga. Warning people that you are using the anime will help to clear up any confusion.

3) Do not be afraid to concede in a debate.

Having the ability to admit that you are wrong is one of the most valuable traits to have in my eyes. When it becomes clear that your debate opponent(s) has provided enough evidence to prove you wrong, do not be afraid to admit it. It is simply part of the learning experience. Having the capability to admit defeat shows that you are ready to take your debating skills to the next level.

4) Be friendly!

Speaking from personal experience, it can be extremely difficult to keep your cool in a debate. But let's face it, we aren't discussing ways to end poverty, so there is no need to get so serious! Friendly people are much more appealing to debate with compared to people who get angry. Not to mention if everyone was friendly there would be a lot less work for us mods :p
Edited by Emmeth, Dec 31 2014, 07:19 AM.
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滅Are you frightened?

A minor question. Shouldn't Feats be more important than Statements?
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
May 30 2014, 12:32 AM
A minor question. Shouldn't Feats be more important than Statements?
Yeah. However, statements, IMO, shouldn't be completely ignored.
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xGOKUdaFALLENx
May 30 2014, 12:32 AM
A minor question. Shouldn't Feats be more important than Statements?
I don't believe I said one was more important than the other.

Statements are really only good to is if they are uncontradicted, and when there are no feats available. Feats are good when there are no statements to go by, so I think they complement each other.
Edited by I Banged Sam, Jun 1 2014, 09:05 PM.
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I agree with everything except for Herms being considered more reliable than any other fanslation, because Herms is still a fanslation and anything that isn't approved by AT shouldn't be considered reliable. As for Anime if it isn't approved by TOEI and isn't contradicted then it shouldn't be considered reliable. I know I'm going to get a lot for saying this, but saying Fanslations aren't reliable but praising Herms is a double standard.

But, I do like the idea of making a Thread like this, I think it can help the rookies.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 1 2014, 09:15 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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I would say Herms is pretty reliable though. Kanzenshuu has many Japanese speaking members on their forum, and I think they would call him out if he was unreliable. Fanslations have been proven to have flawed lines, whereas nobody has really seen that from Herms yet. I don't think people have to take him 100% seriously because he is a fan, but we don't have a reason to go against him.
Edited by I Banged Sam, Jun 1 2014, 09:17 PM.
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That still doesn't take away the double standard about Fanslations. If It's not approved by AT then it's not a reliable source, that's what's preached around here.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Master Saberoph
Jun 1 2014, 09:19 PM
That still doesn't take away the double standard about Fanslations.
It's a question of quality.

Herms translations are so extraordinarily scrutinized [by not only people helping him but other fans using his translation] that they end up being, by far, the most accurate that we have available. They also include translation notes that may aide interpretations, as opposed to applying his own interpretation to the translation.

At the other end of the spectrum, the majority of "fanslations" are people with varying understandings of Japanese, answering to no one but themselves and people they're willing to consult [if any]. They rarely come with any notes... and most of the time are simply not up for discussion.

Master Saberoph
Jun 1 2014, 09:19 PM
If It's not approved by AT then it's not a reliable source, that's what's preached around here.
How can Toriyama-sensei's approval of a translation mean anything if he doesn't speak that language himself? Or if he hasn't at least sat with the translator as they translated, discussing each and every point?

As for preaching... *shrug*
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It still doesn't take away that it's a double standard.

And using double standards in debate is just as reliable as a fanslation.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way... but, from personal experience once you let one double standard slide by, the next time it becomes easier, then easier after that and you get to the point where you let all of them slide by.

But again, I may not be looking at this the wrong way... if I'm missing something, then please point it out to me, I'll be open to it.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 12 2014, 10:09 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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It's only a double standard if the person you're discussing the topic with applies that standard in the first place.

If someone preaches that all fanslations are unreliable and then swears by Herms... sure, treat it as a double standard. But not everyone feels that way... probably not even the majority.

Generally, people recognize that most fanslations are unreliable, not all.
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"Nyruhehehehe"

Some are fairly close though, but without proper verification from others who read Japanese, it can't really be fairly assessed as reliable.

Translations also are interpreted by the translator, therefore we're getting their perspective on whatever it is that they're translating.

You're never going to get 100% accurate translation, and translating literally word-for-word doesn't work because the context or phrasing sometimes can't be understood by people who don't speak that language.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 12 2014, 11:26 PM.
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But the logic of saying most Fanslations are unreliable but not all, doesn't change what it is. Like a spade is a spade, and I'm going to call it by what it is.

It would be like telling someone that a Fan Translated Manga Online isn't reliable, but then in the same post putting a link to Herms.

That's saying a Fanslation isn't reliable, but at the same time saying it is.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Master Saberoph
Jun 12 2014, 11:27 PM
But the logic of saying most Fanslations are unreliable but not all, doesn't change what it is. Like a spade is a spade, and I'm going to call it by what it is.

It would be like telling someone that a Fan Translated Manga Online isn't reliable, but then in the same post putting a link to Herms.

That's saying a Fanslation isn't reliable, but at the same time saying it is.
Taking your spade example: All spades are indeed spades... but obviously there are higher quality ones, made of better materials and through superior process... and there are lower quality ones, made cheaper and for tasks not requiring higher quality.

I think that applies pretty well here.
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That's not the spade I was meaning... I meant the one from the cards, my bad.

But that's a spade, and this is Translating a book... two completely different things, unless a spade can translate a book.

It still doesn't take away the fact that saying a Fanslation isn't reliable, but then turning around and quoting herms is saying the one thing and then saying the exact opposite at the same time.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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Who is saying that though? The majority would be saying: "Most of these spades are terrible... don't use them.. but this one over here, the Digmaster 3000 is great. You should use that one."
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