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- Do the dead deserve respect?
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| Do the dead deserve respect? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 22 2014, 06:59 PM (2,352 Views) | |
| EMIYA | Apr 23 2014, 06:28 PM Post #16 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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You do realize that not everything Hitler did for Germany was for the purpose of satiating his ego and trying to conquer the world right? His actions were done in his own belief to help out the German people who he felt had been oppressed and discriminated in their own way especially during the depression and the issues of World War I. He effectively took Germany out of the hole in the ground and helped build it back up again. His goal was to actually promote Germany into a state that was above its significantly poor status in a point that he felt was righteous. I don't have to respect Hitler for his moral actions, but I can respect him on other grounds. Hitler is a very good speaker. Whether you like him or not you can't deny that he is a good speaker because that's something he excelled at. You don't have to respect him fro his actions of the Holocaust, I'd shake my head if you do, but you can't deny that he did do some great things for Germany that ultimately helped out a country that was in a state of severe depression. You can respect ability without having to necessarily respect the individual themselves but I'm afraid some of you people are almost afraid to admit to something that isn't really wrong. Hitler will for the majority of the people be known as the man who killed 6 million people. But there's a point where people need to understand that yes, Hitler in his life did do things that were good for the better of other people. His overall actions may have been negative to the extremes but those good things that actually helped out the country and others shouldn't be ignored. For example. I respect Hitler as a speaker. I don't respect necessarily what he says, but how he says it. He's obviously very good at this. He knows what to say and how to say it. I can even put it on an opposite end. I respect Dr. Seuss for his literary works but I won't respect him for his involvement in racial Japanese cartoons that he did in the past regardless of how much intention he had on that in the first place. If its not respect it is at the very least acknowledgement on a persons good and bad deeds and not just looking at their overall character. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 23 2014, 06:33 PM.
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| + Emmeth | Apr 23 2014, 06:33 PM Post #17 |
I ♥ Yoeri
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People can choose their own opinion on other people. If you want to give Hitler respect for what he did for Germany, go ahead. It doesn't make you a bad person. However, you may be judged for it and that's something you gotta accept. I think Rogue said it perfectly. Any respect you garnish in life follow you into the afterlife. |
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| + Pelador | Apr 23 2014, 06:36 PM Post #18 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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What was the cost to which he "improved" Germany? He murdered the incapacitated in their beds. The insane too. Anyone who cost the state money, he had killed. He rebuilt Germany on top of the graves of the weak and he funded it all with blood money. f*** Hitler. |
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| EMIYA | Apr 23 2014, 06:43 PM Post #19 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Pelador, if you can't acknowledge the good someone did then there's no point in continuing this debate with you. I don't like Hitler either, I think the mass majority of the things that he's done have been wrong and sinister but I'm not going to try and deny that he was good at some things because he was. It's clear to me that you don't want to see Hitler as anything more than this evil figure who has never done anything good and this discussion won't get anywhere if you keep having that mindset. |
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| + Emmeth | Apr 23 2014, 06:50 PM Post #20 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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In the end, we can blame it all on religion. |
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| + Pelador | Apr 23 2014, 06:53 PM Post #21 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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I don't think Hitler was evil at all. He thought he was doing the right thing. I'm saying that the end doesn't justify the means. Yeah he built more roads and stuff but he killed people so that he could fund it all. |
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| + Steve | Apr 23 2014, 07:24 PM Post #22 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I'm not sure I respect Hitler but I respect what he did for history and the world today. Imagine a world where Germany stayed poor and crappy, all their inventions and research up to now gone, medical breakthroughs gone everything they've achieved since wouldn't have happened. So while Hitler had 6 million Jews killed for stupid reasons because of that I'm sure more than 6 million people will have been saved in various ways due to German technology and knowledge. Also you can respect the power he had. He never single handedly killed the 6 million Jews soldiers did, I don't know the number of soldiers they had but they could have just said no and turned against him but they didn't so I feel it's wrong to paint Hitler as the most despicable when nothing bad he caused would have happened without people playing along and doing the awful things. Anyway as has been said just being dead isn't an achievement you earn respect by what you do in life. Though of course not doing anything significant in life is no reason to disrespect the dead either. |
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| lunar2 | Apr 24 2014, 02:07 AM Post #23 |
 
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as for "letting our morals get in the way". it is our morals that tell is what is good or bad. saying that pulling a nation out of poverty is a good thing is a moral statement, because it is your system of morality that allows you to assign value to various actions. there are actually moral systems in existence that state helping those in need is a bad thing to do. there are moral systems (biblical morality, for example) that state killing people based on ethnicity or nationality is a good thing to do (funny how the jews' own moral system got turned around on them). but you know what? the opposite of those statements are also moral statements. "help those in need" is a moral statement. "accept, or at least tolerate, those of different ethnicity and nationalities" is also a moral statement. and yes, hitler was a horrible person, who does not deserve any respect. everything that hitler supposedly caused would have happened anyway. hitler didn't start the Nazi party, he didn't start anti semitism, he didn't start the process of of conquest. all those things were already in the beginning stages when hitler showed up. hitler was a figurehead for a massive organization that was moving in the same general direction he was. without hitler, things may not have happened to the same degree. but they would have all still happened. the holocaust, the war, the technological advances, the economic boom that a war causes. everything would have played out similarly, if not exactly the same. so hitler's only real claim to fame is that he magnified a series of events that were inevitable anyway. and no, the dead do not deserve respect. they are dead. they have no potential, no future. you respect people for what they can do, not for what they have done. a bag of bones in the ground is only capable of fertilizing the grass above it, and deserves no more respect than any other fertilizer. Edited by lunar2, Apr 24 2014, 02:09 AM.
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| EMIYA | Apr 24 2014, 02:24 AM Post #24 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Conjecture much? There is absolute no proof of that at all. |
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| lunar2 | Apr 24 2014, 04:16 AM Post #25 |
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actually, more like common sense. the nazi party already existed before hitler joined, and had already formed ideals about the aryan master race. in fact, it's rise to power was pretty much inevitable. remember that hitler actually lost the 1932 presidential election. he was appointed chancellor of germany by hindenburg. it's just as likely that any other nazi candidate would have been appointed had hitler not been there, and they certainly would have brought the same ideals with them. in fact, the core ideology of the Nazi party can be traced back to anton drexler, the founder of the original german workers' party (before they changed their name) and the man who recruited hitler to begin with. so no, it wasn't hitler's ideology that led to the events of world war 2. it wasn't hitler's political maneuvering that brought the nazi party to power. and during his reign, hitler tended to have a hands off policy when it came to running the state. he had a general idea, and he let his subordinates handle the details. the only thing hitler actually contributed to the nazi party, and in fact, the reason he was recruited, was because of his oratory skill. but do you really think hitler was the only nazi with a silver tongue? he was a figurehead, nothing more. if he hadn't existed, someone else would have taken on the role. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| EMIYA | Apr 24 2014, 12:44 PM Post #26 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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In the long run though, your point of "It would've happened eventually" is conjecture. Saying that Germany would've rose back up without Hitler has no merit. It may have or it may not have. But it doesn't deny the point that Hitler did things that were meant to help out the German people. His entire point was to bring Germany out of the bring of depression after what they had gone through something that, no may not have happened if he wasn't the leader. Hitler didn't rise to power just so he could kill a bunch of people and take over the world to be evil. He did those things for sake of what he believed would prosper his once war torn, depressed country. His overall goal was noble, wanting to help Germany and quite frankly he was very good at that. With a combination of his leadership and other assortment he helped create Germany as a world power, brought the German people out of the depression, reduced crime greatly, had new highways and roads built and thus was ultimately very popular with the people. It was his way of getting those so things done that were indeed terrible. The way he did those things should've deserve respect in the same way Alexander the Great can be respected as his ability to conquer but not so much respected on how he did it. And yes just as Hitler should not be respected for the terrible deeds he did, he or at the very leads the deeds that did help out others should be respected. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 24 2014, 01:00 PM.
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| * Stark | Apr 24 2014, 05:58 PM Post #27 |
Rock Lobster
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I disagree, lunar. I don't respect people for something they can accomplish, I respect them for what they've done with said potential. Agree to disagree though. |
   
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| lunar2 | Apr 24 2014, 10:36 PM Post #28 |
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not starting an argument here, just pointing something out. once you've already used up your potential, and done everything you can do, you're useless. why should you deserve respect after you are no longer able to contribute? and understand that as long as you are conscious or able to (re)gain consciousness, you still have at least some potential. i'm not saying the elderly or disabled are worthless, or anything like that. i am specifically talking about those that have no potential left. those that are dead or truly brain dead only. @brofist. you missed the point of what i said, as usual. hitler didn't actually do anything. none of his ideology was his own, nothing the germans did while he was in power can be directly attributed to him. hitler was a figurehead. he was nothing more than a face for the nazi party, and as such, was completely replaceable. it was the nazi party as a whole that did everything you attribute to hitler, not hitler himself. i'm not arguing that the technological advancements made aren't worth respect. i'm arguing that hitler didn't make them. i'm not arguing that unifying and uplifting a country isn't worth respect. i'm arguing that hitler isn't the one who did that. hitler was a pawn, not a king. his only accomplishment was to be the front for a far more active and powerful organization. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Jun 30 2014, 11:22 AM Post #29 |
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It's a shame with what Hitler became. He was able to inspire a nation based on people doing what they needed to do to get off the ground and to be successful. He could have empowered Germany for generations to come but got to stuck on his other ambitions. It's tough to say though because he needed to conquer other lands for their resources. Is conquering moral? Of course not, but that is exactly how every super power got there. The extermination of a race of people is probably the most heinous act you can commit against humanity. Genocide occurs everyday in third world countries, but we have never seen it on such a modern scale before and it was a true shock. I don't think anyone has an issue with nationalism and wanting your country to be good and strong, but to do such a thing at the cost of others, well that gets complicated. It seems the more you try to do good for you, the more you do bad for others. It's a shark tank and everyone is competition. That lifestyle sucks. That's why having companies like Google who use their influence to better the world for everyone is such an amazing concept that has never been seen. Hopefully Google can continue it's progress and make it's mark on the world for generations to come. |
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