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| Compulsory Vaccines | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 20 2014, 08:02 AM (1,475 Views) | |
| Tim | Apr 20 2014, 08:02 AM Post #1 |
Forum Royalty
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What are your thought on having certain vaccines (MMR etc) made compulsory for children to have? It is something which should be done as it can cause so many problems if not done, and can harm people through no choice of their own? Or should it be the parents choices? It is something that crosses the line between what the government can and can't control? What do you all think about this? Trying to get a different populations opinion on it thanks 
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| + Steve | Apr 20 2014, 10:48 AM Post #2 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I don't think it should be forced on people. It's not like if you don't get the vaccine YOU WILL DIE, if anything it could be better to not have them, save for a few like a hypothetical HIV/AIDS vaccine. Vaccine just leaves humans dependent on it where if it's something curable the person can survive it, build up antibodies and pass them on. We got far enough without vaccines, all these diseases and things are natures way of saying there are too many people so I don't think they should be compulsory, not everyone and every thing has to live for ever. Though surviving on our own would make our species stronger, we'd be pretty fudged if an EMP stopped everything working and halted vaccine production. Well obviously that wouldn't be the biggest problem in that case but still. Plus not to go all conspiracy but you don't know what they are, a lot of vaccines have actually given the people the thing they're supposed to protect them from or made them more susceptible. If the vaccine would still work the same by the time the kid is 12 or so they should get to decide. |
 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| Meowth | Apr 20 2014, 11:01 AM Post #3 |
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Well yes, that's how vaccines work, you inject a inactive/weaker/similar disease, this is so the body can produce antibodies to fight against this particular invader, you are teaching the body to recognise something. It's not harmful, if it was, well there would be a lot of dead people around. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/How-vaccines-work.aspx But yes, they should be mandatory and free, they are a step towards removing that disease from the known world and I also think that vaccines should be extended to animals which we come into close contact with, that way the animals are also protected and possibly preventing cross mutation diseases. I don't mind needles, so whatever, though the method of the polio vaccination does not taste very nice! |
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| + Pelador | Apr 20 2014, 11:12 AM Post #4 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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They should be mandatory because diseases can affect other people. I wouldn't want my son to get sick just because another parent wasn't considerate enough to vaccinate their child. |
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| Tim | Apr 20 2014, 11:13 AM Post #5 |
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Forum Royalty
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Okay, I appreciate your opinion but I would like to point out that I don't think you understand how vaccinations work. A vaccination contains a portion of the disease which allows a special type of immune cell called a memory cell to recognise it and react to it. This means that the next time the body comes into contact with it the immune system is able to respond faster and prevent it from getting too dangerous. This is a very very simply breakdown and I encourage you to out there and educate yourself and read up on how vaccines work. All they are doing is preparing your body to be able to cope with it better - the days of live vaccinations (which were still good for you, however obviously less desirable) are over, we don't place anything in them which can give you the disease. It is not physically possible for you to get the disease from it. The adverse effects of most vaccinations are minimal, probably the most common is simply anaphylaxis and as you are always monitored for ~20 minutes after the vaccinations this is never going to be a problem provided you receive it in a controlled manner i.e. through your doctor / local healthcare system. Thanks to vaccinations diseases like smallpox and polio were wiped out. TB was dropped from millions of cases to less than a dozen (roughly, i'll get some exact facts shortly). The only argument I won't argue with on your post is that not having vaccines would kill a lot of people. It is also highly unlikely an EMP would stop vaccine productions and cause problems - a) if the disease was wiped out it wouldn't be a problem anyway, and b) if an EMP stopping everything globally to the point where it was not able to be restarted then the lack of vaccinations would be the least of our problems. As for your conspiracy comment:  It is not the case. I am far from an expert on the subject but I have studied immunology (and as such vaccines) at a tertiary level and so can at least pass on some rough information which I gained a slight knowledge from thanks to an expert in the field. Finally I would like to post a few infographics from the 2014 Gates Annual Letter by Bill and Melinda Gates. I have also link the full letter to this post and highly recommend you read this as it also addresses your concerns regarding population also this is not something directly relevant to this thread - http://annualletter.gatesfoundation.org/    I hope that helps you understand things a bit better
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Apr 20 2014, 12:02 PM Post #6 |
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Nothing should be forced upon people IMO. I haven't had a needle for at least the last nine years, but I'm still breathing. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Apr 20 2014, 01:04 PM Post #7 |
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Izanagi!
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I believe that vaccinations should be mandatory and free for children. A parent shouldn't have the freedom to increase their child's risk of falling ill by declining something that could prevent it. In fact, turning down such a vaccination for your child would be tantamount to negligence. Why take the risk of your child succumbing to illness when you can vaccinate them? Being able to reject such vaccinations is taking the concept of liberty a little too far. |
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| + Steve | Apr 20 2014, 01:14 PM Post #8 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Yeah I know what a vaccine is but they don't always work so why should you trust them? You don't get tested in any way to see if it works first it's just a case of come on in *stab* bye. Just because it works on other people doesn't mean it will do exactly the same for you so why should it be forced upon you, if you get the disease or whatever what then? "Sorry your body had an unexpected response and now you're going to die soon, have some money" wouldn't really cut it. They shouldn't be mandatory unless it's for something of which there's an extremely high risk of getting in whatever place and/or is very contagious. I just think that other than for contagious things or essentially death sentences we should rely on our immune systems to get stronger naturally instead of being dependent on doctors. As the saying goes what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...which obviously doesn't apply to all things but many, I was almost killed by some unknown illness the doctors couldn't treat at all beyond keep me on an IV. Immune system was basically nothing but bounced back and now I'm never ill, haven't been for like 10 years now even when exposed to stuff that makes others ill. A vaccine only helps you against the one thing generally but if your immune system builds itself up it can protect you from all but the worst. The worst of which is supposed to kill you because homosapien's only predators are themselves and illness. |
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| * Crashbreaka | Apr 20 2014, 01:28 PM Post #9 |
Captain Oblivious
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I agree with Steve here. One of my vaccinations actually hospitalized me for a little while, so I do think "mandatory" might be taking it a little far. That being said, I'm pretty there are a few different ways to get vaccinated rather than "go to school, get stabbed in the shoulder". All further vaccinations for me were done at a proper clinic under much less casual circumstances, so maybe if they did something like that I could get behind it more. |
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| lunar2 | Apr 21 2014, 12:46 AM Post #10 |
 
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your immune system is not a muscle. being exposed to a certain disease, either naturally or through a vaccine, only increases your future resistance to that one disease, or any related diseases that happen to share an antigen (such as smallpox and cowpox). additionally, with most diseases, you get them once, maybe twice in your lifetime. but yeah, i guess you'd rather get sick and deal with all the complications you are guaranteed to get from the disease instead of the tiny risk of the typically milder complications you might get from a vaccine. now, it is true that if you are not exposed to enough antigens, your immune system gets sensitive, causing problems like allergies and asthma. but a vaccine, or a mild disease like a cold, is just as effective at stimulating your immune system as the more serious diseases you'd typically get vaccinated for. vaccines nearly always work because every healthy immune system works basically the same way. the same types of cells do the same things in the same situations in nearly all people. to give you an example of the comparative risks of vaccination, take a look at the flu. "In some cases, an autoimmune response to an influenza infection may contribute to the development of Guillain-Barré syndrome.[139] However, as many other infections can increase the risk of this disease, influenza may only be an important cause during epidemics.[139][140] This syndrome has been believed to also be a rare side effect of influenza vaccines. One review gives an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.[141] Getting infected by influenza itself increases both the risk of death (up to 1 in 10,000) and increases the risk of developing GBS to a much higher level than the highest level of suspected vaccine involvement (approx. 10 times higher by recent estimates).[142][143]" so, get a flu vaccine every year and have a 1/1,000,000 chance of getting Guillan-Barre syndrome, or get the actual flu and suffer for a week, in addition to having a higher risk of both death and contracting that syndrome. and before anyone brings up the chemicals in vaccines. mercury hasn't been used for years. it was taken out as a precautionary measure despite their being no evidence of any harmful effects in the amounts used. formaldehyde and aluminum are still used in vaccines, but the amounts are so low that not only are they harmless, they are insignificant compared to the amount you are exposed to on any given day just from the food you eat. for example, the highest amount of aluminum in any vaccine is 0.5 mg in the hepatitis b vaccine, compared to 7-9 mg of aluminum in the average person's diet. hepatitis b is a 3 stage vaccine taken over the course of one year, once in your life. so in one year, hepatitis b vaccination adds 1.5 mg of aluminum to the 2,555 mg of aluminum you eat in that same year. unless you have an allergic reaction to a vaccine, they are much safer than actually getting the disease, and just as effective at preventing future illness. that said, school age children shouldn't be legally required to get vaccines unless they are going to a public school or a private school with a vaccination policy. you have a right to make decisions regarding your own health care. vaccines are almost universally a good idea to get, but you have the right to make bad decisions for yourself. the school caveat comes because when you refuse to vaccinate, you also endanger the people around you. so your school (or place of work if you are an adult) can require you to get whatever vaccinations they want, unless you've already had the disease or are allergic to a component of the vaccine (for example, you aren't supposed to get certain vaccines if you have an egg allergy). |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Tim | Apr 21 2014, 05:50 AM Post #11 |
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Forum Royalty
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Guillain-Barré syndrome has actually been determined to occur naturally at a 1/1000000 rate so the vaccination actually doesn't effect it. @Crash, while you were one of the few who did get an adverse reaction a few days in hospital is still better than potentially dying of the disease. Unfortunately some cases do happen but they are always minimal risks as opposed to that of the actual disease. Thanks lunar for that, makes a nice summary of it and hopefully Steve now has a better understanding of how it all works Do you think then that a school age child is capable of making their own decision about the importance of getting vaccinated? |
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| SpeedoTrunks | Apr 21 2014, 08:07 AM Post #12 |
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If anything, It should just be as it is really, that you have the choice of opting out if you feel its not relevant for your child. Personally, I will be doing, (and already have), getting my own child vaccinated when needed, as it very much does help them. I had all the vaccinations as a kid, including several for things needed for travel abroad (Various hepatitis and Yellow Fever vaccination to name a few) and am in good health. I chose to opt of a mumps vaccination in my teens, as I felt it wasn't needed, and luckily I was correct......but otherwise could have been very painful if I was wrong. Older me would force teenage me to go for that! Anyway, the point it is, of course its good for you! We're very lucky in the UK to have the NHS, which give us all these vaccinations for free basically for life. Might as well take it if its free hah. |
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| Tim | Apr 21 2014, 09:08 AM Post #13 |
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Forum Royalty
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I'm curious, what counts as a disease that isn't relevant for your child? |
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| SpeedoTrunks | Apr 21 2014, 09:29 AM Post #14 |
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For me, all vaccines are relevant, but there is always that mother/father/ on TV all like "No, I just don't think its safe. That one girl died from this in 1975....etc". My point was that if you personally felt it wasn't relevant, IE those who are......incorrect [in my opinion anyway]. |
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| Meowth | Apr 21 2014, 10:59 AM Post #15 |
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I don't think anyone has a right to deny their child a vaccination based on ignorance. |
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