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What is Broly's LSSJ power multiplier.; No Broly Haters please.
Topic Started: Apr 19 2014, 01:58 PM (4,470 Views)
SecretlyaFish
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I would like to state that of course, all of this is of course hypothetical, the movies rarely make any sense, and do not follow the canon show very well, especially in rules. Also, every single villian in the show is defeated in one way or another, usually by some inexplainable action or move. Broly being defeated in movie 8 with 1 punch, was one such moment. Regardless of what happened during the movies, we need to find out how powerul he is.

Because Brolys max power was never on showcase in any of his forms, its difficult to do. He never actually fought seriously, and in movie 8 at the very end, when I guess Goku and Vegetas energry fused and made Goku equal to Broly, he loses in 1 punch because... Movie budget? Too long? Either way, ridiculous. In Movie 10, Broly actually died in a realistic way, which suits his personality perfectly. But we still never see the extent of his full power, where he is using every last move in his arsenal to survive, like Goku or Vegeta against Majin Buu. So its hard to actually know just how far he can push himself.

So far, here is what I know from watching the movies and paying close attention to details.

1. His base SSJ form seems to be a cut above the others in the same form. This is evidenced by enraged Vegeta being unable to even make Broly notice his attack, a kick to the neck, one of the weakest parts of the body. He also only managed to piss off Broly with his, what looks to be, big bang attack, since it looks exactly like it. After that Broly transforms, and is completely unable to be harmed by any attack mounted by any of them. If I were to liken it to something, it would be like toddlers trying to wrestle with their dad. He is then beaten in a single punch at the very end after the vegeta/goku energy fusion. I believe this was their first attempt at fusion in DBZ. It was made in 1993 after all, and I cant remember the name but the movie where goku goes SSJ but his hair is red, basically a prototype kind of for the regular SSJ. I think even the biggest Broly hater could say that was a pretty garbage ending to movie 8.

2. His personality seems to almost prevent him from using his full power. In every single fight we see him in, Broly know's he is unmatched. He doesn't use his full power and simply toys with goku, vegeta, gohan, and everyone else, and even while he is doing this, they die from his attacks. If piccolo hadn't given them the sensu beans, they would have died where they were left, without any further intervention from Broly, their bodies were broken. In movie 10, Gohan transforms to SSJ2 but still cannot actually harm Broly, he can maybe stun him for a second but only because Broly doesn't take it seriously. You can see this perfectly when Broly grapples Gohan. He uses enough force to cause Gohan serious pain but doesn't actually try to kill him, just tortures him, you can see Gohans arms being pulled back when Broly exerts force, then going foward again when Broly relaxes it. Gohan then gets out of the grapple by taking advantage of Broly not taking it serious.

3. His actual legit death, and really in my opinion the scene where we see a part of Brolys true power, and of course how his personality gets him killed. Gohan uses his ultimate attack on Broly, Broly takes it serious but only to an extent, we see that because Broly immediately goes to meet gohans attack with his own. However, that is really only as far as it goes. He starts by firing off his attack, which we all know can kill gohan at ANY point, but he keeps it there and just makes it gradually overpower gohans attack, since that fits perfectly with how toei has built him as a character. Goten then joins, and it still does nothing but halt however much power Broly put into the blast, which must have been just enough to overpower gohans. As Goku joins the fight, he goes SSJ2 and shoots his kamehameha at Broly. Once he gets them all concentrating, they begin to overpower Broly. But really they aren't, Broly laughs and simply puts more power into his meteor, and they are once again completely overpowered. Trunks then throws something which screws up Brolys ki input into his blast. Broly is taken by surprise, fires 3 attacks at the kamehameha and then fails to bring about enough of a defense to stop their attack. His arrogance kills him in the end. A realistic ending. Had he not screwed around, he could have defeated and killed any of them easily.

There are more things I could bring up but those are some of the main ones. Some may say that Goku wasn't SSJ2 in movie 10 but on that I would call BS. We already know in movie 10 they screwed up gohans SSJ2 transformation and so, I doubt gokus SSJ2 transformation would have the same detail as the canon show. Here is what I know and what makes sense. Goku is entirely capable of SSJ2 at this point, there is no reason as to why he wouldn't use it. His sons, his wife, his friends, everyone he loves and cares about are on that earth. Goku wouldn't screw around at the second everyone could die and not use SSJ2. He totally was SSJ2 just like gohan. And they were both overpowered, all the while Broly literally laughing at them like their combined power is meaningless.

So after that long read, sorry its so long, I am not that great at condensing my thoughts, where does that leave Broly in terms of how much more powerful LSSJ makes him over his regular SSJ form? If we were to make Broly Canon, and put him in the show, and have him follow the official rules, how strong would he be?

As far as I know, here is how power multipliers go.

SSJ1 = Base x50
SSJ2 = SSJ1 x10
SSJ3 = SSJ2 x4
SSJ4 = SSJ3 x10

I think we can safely say that at the height of Broly's power, his LSSJ form is well beyond that of a regular SSJ2. Gohan stood as much of a chance as the rest did in the first movie. Completely overpowered and had no chance to defeat him without help. Broly then overpowered 2 SSJ2's and an SSJ1 fighting at full capacity to try and save earth, and they only won because of trunks.

So.... I think I would put his LSSJ power multiplier at x25-30 over SSJ1 at his strongest. That would't make him as strong as SSJ3, but would explain why he was able to make a mockery out of the best they could muster in movie 10.

LSSJ = SSJ1 x 25-30
Edited by SecretlyaFish, Apr 19 2014, 02:00 PM.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

LSSJ is just 2 times SSJ for me. It was based on SSJG3 so I just give it the same multiplier. LSSJ's advantages are that it's fast and that it's power keeps growing until it hits the users limits. I would also like to take the time to point out that these are the official SSJ multipliers, in case you did not know:
SSJ: 50x base
SSJ2: 2x SSJ/100x base
SSJ3: 4x SSJ2/400x base
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Apr 19 2014, 02:07 PM.
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SecretlyaFish
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If those are the base than I would say...

LSSJ = SSJ1 x 5-6, or SSJ2 x 2.5 - x3

It is an interesting theory but if that holds true it wouldn't explain why Broly would be able to laugh off the attack of 2 SSJ2's and SSJ1.

Since it certainly isn't impossible, something fun would be to make Broly begin to transform in LSSJ, to LSSJ 2, x2 LSSJ, and LSSJ3, x4 LSSJ2. He would be unbeatable.
Edited by SecretlyaFish, Apr 19 2014, 02:15 PM.
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Event Horizon
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When did he laugh off an attack from two SSJ2's? During the final beam struggle in M10, both Gohan, Goten and Goku were SSJ. When Trunks' ki blast blocked Broli's ki blasts from adding more power to his attack, that's when Goku and Gohan turned SSJ2 and they destroyed Broli's attack and pushed him into the Sun.

SSJ: 50x Base
SSJ Grade II: 1.5x SSJ
SSJ Grade III: 1.75-2x SSJ
SSJ2: 2x SSJ
LSSJ: 2x SSJ
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SecretlyaFish
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Yushin
Apr 19 2014, 02:24 PM
When did he laugh off an attack from two SSJ2's? During the final beam struggle in M10, both Gohan, Goten and Goku were SSJ. When Trunks' ki blast blocked Broli's ki blasts from adding more power to his attack, that's when Goku and Gohan turned SSJ2 and they destroyed Broli's attack and pushed him into the Sun.

SSJ: 50x Base
SSJ Grade II: 1.5x SSJ
SSJ Grade III: 1.75-2x SSJ
SSJ2: 2x SSJ
LSSJ: 2x SSJ
That makes no sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guds9cDzybk

I just rewatched to double check and I saw no difference in how they looked. No way would Gohan mess around being only SSJ1 when he could be SSJ2, sorry, but nope. And Goku wouldn't be SSJ1 when he could go SSJ2, not against Broly about to destroy the earth.

This also lends credence to the fact that there is NO official base times X. Since that is now 3 different answers I have seen.
Edited by SecretlyaFish, Apr 19 2014, 02:31 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

I'm not going to get into the whole SSJ/SSj2 Goku point but we have literally character designs showing Gohan as an SSJ2 in movie 10. They use the same design from his Budokai Adult self and even go as far to differentiate between the SSJ form and the SSj2 form, which at that point was noticeable for Gohan to have two bangs in SSJ and one bang in SSJ2.

I'm lazy, one of you people be a friend and get that out for me please. :)
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SecretlyaFish
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Father Brofist
Apr 19 2014, 02:33 PM
I'm not going to get into the whole SSJ/SSj2 Goku point but we have literally character designs showing Gohan as an SSJ2 in movie 10. They use the same design from his Budokai Adult self and even go as far to differentiate between the SSJ form and the SSj2 form, which at that point was noticeable for Gohan to have two bangs in SSJ and one bang in SSJ2.

I'm lazy, one of you people be a friend and get that out for me please. :)
Its all kind of a matter of perception, Toei says nothing official on how strong they all are usually and its left up to the fans to decide for themselves. My opinion is merely based on what makes sense to me, based on how we all know the characters. Definitely agree with Gohan though, they went to some lengths to distinguish his hair for sure.
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Event Horizon
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Exactly, Gohan has two bangs in SSJ and one in SSJ2.

Gohan was SSJ2 during his fight with LSSJ Broli, but during the beam struggle he was just SSJ, since he had two bangs and not just one.

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SecretlyaFish
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Yushin
Apr 19 2014, 02:45 PM
Exactly, Gohan has two bangs in SSJ and one in SSJ2.

Gohan was SSJ2 during his fight with LSSJ Broli, but during the beam struggle he was just SSJ, since he had two bangs and not just one.

Spoiler: click to toggle
That could honestly just be a small piece of hair. It makes zero sense, like I said. It also make ZERO sense as to why gohan would try to kill Broly with a kamehameha in SJJ1 when he can go SSJ2, especially when he fought broly as SSJ2 throughout the movie.

This theory has no evidence to support it beyond a picture which still looks like one big bang.
Edited by SecretlyaFish, Apr 19 2014, 02:49 PM.
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Event Horizon
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Here's the concept art, you can clearly see the difference between SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan just by looking at the hair.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Again, Gohan with two bangs - indicating SSJ.
Spoiler: click to toggle


Gohan, two bangs when he's about to charge the Kamehameha against Broli.
Spoiler: click to toggle


SSJ2 Gohan as he's charging towards LSSJ Broli - notice only one bang.
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And when they break through Broli's attack, Gohan's second bang is completely gone. Indicating that he THEN powered up to SSJ2.
Edited by Event Horizon, Apr 19 2014, 03:03 PM.
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Oh, man. The bangs are just a dead giveaway, aren't they?
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1.7X SSJ for me. I'm in the belief that whether or not Goku was an SSJ2 wouldn't matter because at the last portion of the beam struggle, the Family Kamehameha basically rips through Broly's Green Ball of Death and sends his a*** into outer space.

Also, i'm in the minority that believes SSJ2 Goku > LSSJ Broly due to the last portion of M11.
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I treat Broli's "Legendary" Super Saiyan boost as his own mutated version of Super Saiyan Grade 3 and/or Super Saiyan 2, which I believe share the same "2x SSJ" boost to begin with. Broli's form may be identical to those two, or even perhaps a tiny bit stronger what with how over-bloated with power he is. But only a tiny bit, like a 110-115x base boost at best.
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Victorious
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According to movie 10, Broly's SSJ to LSSJ boost is greater than a Saiyan going from base to SSJ2. Since Gohan's base in movie 10 rivalled Broly's SSJ but Gohan's SSJ2 was easily beaten by Broly's LSSJ.

So whatever the multiplier you have for base to SSJ2, it's that and then a little more added on.
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Venato
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No definite answer, but I would say 200x base.

Indeed, Broly was defeated by 2 SSJ2 and SSJ. How do I know that Goku and Gohan were SSJ2 at the Kamehameha? Yushin has already proven to Gohan, now I'm going to prove to Goku.

SSJ Goku has five wicks before. His wick in the middle is big and a little short :

Spoiler: click to toggle


SSJ2 Goku has only three wicks before. His wick in the middle is thinner and slightly above his eye.

Spoiler: click to toggle


During the Kamehameha, it goes SSJ to SSJ2 in an instant.

Spoiler: click to toggle


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And yet they succeeded thanks to the intervention of Trunks, which decreased the power of the Omega Blaster (which is also inconsistent, since Trunks was half dead). In addition they have only "push" Broly in the Sun.

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