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Comparaison BoG with DBGT
Topic Started: Apr 17 2014, 01:42 AM (8,318 Views)
+ Yusuke
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Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:52 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 12:51 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:42 AM
Quote:
 
multipliers so SSJ4

Multiplier and SSJ4 should not be in the same sentence.
I was referring to the transformation from Base to SSJ4 shouldn't be too great due to the multipliers for SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 being relatively small and that Z multipliers are much bigger than GT's not to mention SSJG's radical boost.
But that is meaningless if SSJ4 is based on dormant power. It doesn't matter what the starting point is.
Even so, the boost can be no more than say 100-200X Base based on the overall powerscalling of GT. SSJG is way beyond that kind of increase.
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SSJ
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Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:06 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:52 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 12:51 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:42 AM
Quote:
 
multipliers so SSJ4

Multiplier and SSJ4 should not be in the same sentence.
I was referring to the transformation from Base to SSJ4 shouldn't be too great due to the multipliers for SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 being relatively small and that Z multipliers are much bigger than GT's not to mention SSJG's radical boost.
But that is meaningless if SSJ4 is based on dormant power. It doesn't matter what the starting point is.
Even so, the boost can be no more than say 100-200X Base based on the overall powerscalling of GT. SSJG is way beyond that kind of increase.
Who says? I say SSJ 4 is a 2495x boost. Prove me wrong.
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Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:09 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:06 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:52 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 12:51 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:42 AM
Quote:
 
multipliers so SSJ4

Multiplier and SSJ4 should not be in the same sentence.
I was referring to the transformation from Base to SSJ4 shouldn't be too great due to the multipliers for SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 being relatively small and that Z multipliers are much bigger than GT's not to mention SSJG's radical boost.
But that is meaningless if SSJ4 is based on dormant power. It doesn't matter what the starting point is.
Even so, the boost can be no more than say 100-200X Base based on the overall powerscalling of GT. SSJG is way beyond that kind of increase.
Who says? I say SSJ 4 is a 2495x boost. Prove me wrong.
Well, for arguments sake. Lets assume SSJ is 2.5X Base, SSJ2 is 1.5X SSJ, and SSJ3 is 3X SSJ2.

Base Goku (Bebi Saga): 1
SSJ: 2.5
SSJ2: 3.75
SSJ3: 11.25

Bebi Vegeta (Base): 13
SBV1: 20
SBV2: 26

Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 260

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 260-280

So you would most likely have SSJ4 around the low hundreds range. Could be different for other people but that's the general range taken everything into account.
Edited by Yusuke, Apr 25 2014, 01:21 AM.
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Quote:
 
Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 250

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 250-270

This is where I see pure conjecture. Gauging a gap like that is inconceivable.
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+ Yusuke
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Apr 25 2014, 01:23 AM
Quote:
 
Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 250

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 250-270

This is where I see pure conjecture. Gauging a gap like that is inconceivable.
What's wrong with the gap? I didn't say it would be the same for everyone.
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Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:27 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:23 AM
Quote:
 
Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 250

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 250-270

This is where I see pure conjecture. Gauging a gap like that is inconceivable.
What's wrong with the gap? I didn't say it would be the same for everyone.
I'm saying that judging it is impossible. Baby should gain the full potential of himself + Vegeta when he turns into Golden Oozaru. How can you say that he gains that much?
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+ Yusuke
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Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:29 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:27 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:23 AM
Quote:
 
Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 250

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 250-270

This is where I see pure conjecture. Gauging a gap like that is inconceivable.
What's wrong with the gap? I didn't say it would be the same for everyone.
I'm saying that judging it is impossible. Baby should gain the full potential of himself + Vegeta when he turns into Golden Oozaru. How can you say that he gains that much?
I thought that you didn't like the list because it was too low and not because it was too high lol.

Well personally, I can see a much smaller gap between SBV2 and Golden Oozaru Bebi than 10X but I was assuming you wanted the most substantial gap so I used a 10X gap.
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Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:31 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:29 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:27 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:23 AM
Quote:
 
Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 250

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 250-270

This is where I see pure conjecture. Gauging a gap like that is inconceivable.
What's wrong with the gap? I didn't say it would be the same for everyone.
I'm saying that judging it is impossible. Baby should gain the full potential of himself + Vegeta when he turns into Golden Oozaru. How can you say that he gains that much?
I thought that you didn't like the list because it was too low and not because it was too high lol.

Well personally, I can see a much smaller gap between SBV2 and Golden Oozaru Bebi than 10X but I was assuming you wanted the most substantial gap so I used a 10X gap.
I don't give a rat's a*** about the gap at all. My problem was stemmed by the fact that you were making it seem like SSJ4 had to have that type of boost.
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Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:33 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:31 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:29 AM
Yusuke Urameshi
Apr 25 2014, 01:27 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 01:23 AM
Quote:
 
Then we have SSJ4 Goku who stomped SBV2 easily and even took his Death Ball like it was nothing. At best, I can only see SSJ4 Goku being 10X stronger than SBV2. Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta was more or less on the same level as SSJ4 Goku.

SSJ4 Goku: 250

Golden Oozaru Bebi Vegeta: 250-270

This is where I see pure conjecture. Gauging a gap like that is inconceivable.
What's wrong with the gap? I didn't say it would be the same for everyone.
I'm saying that judging it is impossible. Baby should gain the full potential of himself + Vegeta when he turns into Golden Oozaru. How can you say that he gains that much?
I thought that you didn't like the list because it was too low and not because it was too high lol.

Well personally, I can see a much smaller gap between SBV2 and Golden Oozaru Bebi than 10X but I was assuming you wanted the most substantial gap so I used a 10X gap.
I don't give a rat's a*** about the gap at all. My problem was stemmed by the fact that you were making it seem like SSJ4 had to have that type of boost.
Well no, it doesn't have to be that kind of boost but I was trying to say that the gains SSJG provides is much more substantial than the ones SSJ4 provides based on the respective fights.
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Venato
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Victorious
Apr 24 2014, 08:43 PM
Quote:
 
Goku: "Really incredible...That a guy like him exists..."
Kaio: "I kept warning you but you didn't listen! You should be glad you weren't killed."
Goku: "To stand a chance against him, I'd have to fuse with Vegeta. No, even then I don't think I could win."


That could mean Gogeta, and not Vegetto. The porta were crushed and Vegetto is never brought up again after he defused.


Like Yushin said.

Quote:
 

Quote:
 

After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!


That doesn't specify which SSJ4 and which version of Vegetto. A GT Vegetto would be far far far far far far stronger than Buu saga Vegetto.

I would agree that only means SSJ Veggeto [GT] > SSJ4 Goku [GT] or SSJ Vegetto [Buu saga] > hypothetical SSJ4 Goku [Buu saga], not SSJ Vegetto [Buu saga] > SSJ4 Goku [GT]


No. They talking about the Vegito who existed, and they said ''perhaps''' stronger. But Vegito SSJ is FAR stronger than a SSJ3, SSJ4 is only 10x. The ''perhaps'' introduce the fact that Vegito's full power is comparable to a SSJ4, but if it's Vegito GT, he is not even comparable with a poor SSJ4.
Edited by Venato, Apr 25 2014, 08:35 AM.
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Gogetto
Apr 25 2014, 08:32 AM
Victorious
Apr 24 2014, 08:43 PM
Quote:
 
Goku: "Really incredible...That a guy like him exists..."
Kaio: "I kept warning you but you didn't listen! You should be glad you weren't killed."
Goku: "To stand a chance against him, I'd have to fuse with Vegeta. No, even then I don't think I could win."


That could mean Gogeta, and not Vegetto. The porta were crushed and Vegetto is never brought up again after he defused.


Like Yushin said.

Quote:
 

Quote:
 

After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!


That doesn't specify which SSJ4 and which version of Vegetto. A GT Vegetto would be far far far far far far stronger than Buu saga Vegetto.

I would agree that only means SSJ Veggeto [GT] > SSJ4 Goku [GT] or SSJ Vegetto [Buu saga] > hypothetical SSJ4 Goku [Buu saga], not SSJ Vegetto [Buu saga] > SSJ4 Goku [GT]


No. They talking about the Vegito who existed, and they said ''perhaps''' stronger. But Vegito SSJ is FAR stronger than a SSJ3, SSJ4 is only 10x. The ''perhaps'' introduce the fact that Vegito's full power is comparable to a SSJ4, but if it's Vegito GT, he is not even comparable with a poor SSJ4.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8911134&t=8439188
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Venato
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The Saiyan Hunter

Kamikaze Pyro
Apr 25 2014, 08:55 AM
Gogetto
Apr 25 2014, 08:32 AM
Victorious
Apr 24 2014, 08:43 PM
Quote:
 
Goku: "Really incredible...That a guy like him exists..."
Kaio: "I kept warning you but you didn't listen! You should be glad you weren't killed."
Goku: "To stand a chance against him, I'd have to fuse with Vegeta. No, even then I don't think I could win."


That could mean Gogeta, and not Vegetto. The porta were crushed and Vegetto is never brought up again after he defused.


Like Yushin said.

Quote:
 

Quote:
 

After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!


That doesn't specify which SSJ4 and which version of Vegetto. A GT Vegetto would be far far far far far far stronger than Buu saga Vegetto.

I would agree that only means SSJ Veggeto [GT] > SSJ4 Goku [GT] or SSJ Vegetto [Buu saga] > hypothetical SSJ4 Goku [Buu saga], not SSJ Vegetto [Buu saga] > SSJ4 Goku [GT]


No. They talking about the Vegito who existed, and they said ''perhaps''' stronger. But Vegito SSJ is FAR stronger than a SSJ3, SSJ4 is only 10x. The ''perhaps'' introduce the fact that Vegito's full power is comparable to a SSJ4, but if it's Vegito GT, he is not even comparable with a poor SSJ4.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8911134&t=8439188
That can serve to explain the Goku SSJ (Super 17) > Goku SSJ3 (Baby). But the SSJ4 boost still nothing compared to fusion boost :

Normal Vegito is equal or almost strong as Buuhan, but Goku SSJ3 is not even the level of Gotenks base (it's a very huge différence).

So, normal Vegito GT would completely one shoot Goku SSJ4.
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Venato
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Victorious
Apr 24 2014, 09:24 PM


The difference between Goku in BOG and GT Baby saga is immense. Considering base Goku in BOG is implied to be weaker than Freeza, while base Goku Baby saga is stronger than Buuhan.
1)No, base Goku GT is stronger than Majin Buu, not Buuhan.

Quote:
 

Goku says Rildo is stronger than Buu to Pan and Trunks. We know :
-Trunks saw only Majin Buu and Kid Buu.
- Pan wasn't even alive when Kid Buu was.

The only Boo either of them know is Majin Buu. I think if it was a Buu who doesn't know by Trunks and Pan, Goku would have said, this is not the case. It makes more sense that Goku talking about the Buu alive rather than one that is long dead (as nobody speaks Piccolo died long ago compared to one who is alive), especially if they have made a wish through Shenron for this Buu there be forgotten (so there is no chance he spoke of evil Buu and its different forms has his granddaughter). Moreover, it seems to me that FUNinamation he speaks of Majin Buu.




In SSJ3, he is weaker than Gotenks SSJ3 and Super Buu.

2)Goku BoG > Goku MV13. Goku MV13 defeat Hirudegarn, who had easily defeated Mystic Gohan and Gotenks SSJ3.

SSJ3 Goku BoG > SSJ3 Goku GT until Super 17 Saga (but the gap is never very huge).

So, When Beerus said Goku < Frieza, Goku was heavily supressed.
Edited by Venato, Apr 25 2014, 09:40 AM.
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sekzee
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Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:48 AM
Victorious
Apr 25 2014, 12:46 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:30 AM
So why are you suggesting opposite for BoG? Just assume that Goku was suppressed.
Because it's stated, that's why. Maybe Goku got nerfed. That's why angry Vegeta's SSJ is stronger than Goku's SSJ3 too.

I believe base Goku though movie 5 is stronger than Freeza.
It was also stated in the manga that Goku had a power level of 5k against Jeice/Burter/Recoome. Goku never just walks around at full power.
We learn that Goku fights in bursts in order to conserve energy.

Goku never contradicts Beerus' claim. So even if Goku was suppressed, his best in base wouldn't disprove Beerus' claim. That is likely why he proceeds to transform rather than power up in base.
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Venato
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The Saiyan Hunter

sekzee
Apr 25 2014, 06:35 PM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:48 AM
Victorious
Apr 25 2014, 12:46 AM
Super Saiyan
Apr 25 2014, 12:30 AM
So why are you suggesting opposite for BoG? Just assume that Goku was suppressed.
Because it's stated, that's why. Maybe Goku got nerfed. That's why angry Vegeta's SSJ is stronger than Goku's SSJ3 too.

I believe base Goku though movie 5 is stronger than Freeza.
It was also stated in the manga that Goku had a power level of 5k against Jeice/Burter/Recoome. Goku never just walks around at full power.
We learn that Goku fights in bursts in order to conserve energy.

Goku never contradicts Beerus' claim. So even if Goku was suppressed, his best in base wouldn't disprove Beerus' claim. That is likely why he proceeds to transform rather than power up in base.
If Frieza > base Goku, then BoG Goku < Boo saga Goku.
Kaioshin can one-kill Frieza, then he is scared when he sees Yakon: "Oh my let's team up or we'll die!!!", base Goku then makes Yakon looks like a fool while Kaioshin is like that 0_0'.
We can thus say:

Base Boo saga Goku >= Yakon > Kaioshin > Frieza > base BoG Goku.

Interesting, it must be the first case of a manga main character getting weaker and not stronger; maybe it could be because of Goku's old age.

(sarcastic)
Edited by Venato, Apr 25 2014, 08:28 PM.
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