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Comparaison BoG with DBGT
Topic Started: Apr 17 2014, 01:42 AM (8,317 Views)
Venato
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The Saiyan Hunter

I saw a lot of Bills VS Omega Shenron, SSJ4 Gogeta VS Whis and so on. That is why I will try to compare in objective ways.

To begin I will contradict the false claims about DBGT. Many people say Baby is stronger than Bills because Goku SSJ4 and Baby Vegeta are stronger the strongest ever felt by Old Kai. This is false because we know that Goku GT = Z Goku SSJ3 easily placing his SSJ3 at a level 400 times higher. Now this is a level that Gotenks SSJ3 already has (proof : http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8873015&t=8435301). So Goku GT = Gotenks. So, Goku SSJ4 = 10x Gotrunks SSJ3 = 4000x Goku SSJ3.

Now we look Vegeto. In the anime (yes I have the right to use the anime, I debate above), normal Vegito = Buuhan (said by Old Kai). Super Buu = 400x Goku SSJ3, and Mystic Gohan is at least 1.5x stronger (400 x 1.5 = 600).
So, Buuhan = 400 + 600 = 1000. Vegito is 1000 times stronger than Goku SSJ3, Which places it already has a higher level than Goku GT SSJ3. So, Vegito SSJ = 1000 x 50 = 50 000 times stronger than Goku SSJ3 ! Needless to say SSJ4 Goku is much weaker and Old Kai was therefore felt almost nothing of the true power of Vegito. In addition, I recall that those divine ki (ki so similar to that of Goku SSJG) can not feel ki Bills, and Old Kai does not possess ki.


Now people say that Goku GT received Haxx in the Super 17 Saga. Indeed, this argument rests on the fact that SSJ Goku> Majuub> SSJ3 Goku SSJ4 Goku and suddenly be much stronger than in the previous Saga. However, these people have forgotten a detail yet capital: unlocking the potential of Goku through his new tail. Indeed, although initially it does not work when Goku becomes Oozaru, Pan said his ki increases more and more. Goku's ki therefore increases until such time as it becomes SSJ4. So, Goku ALREADY received this so-called Haxx in Baby Saga when he turn into SSJ4 for the first time. So, Goku SSJ4 Saga Baby = 40 000x.

These brackets set, it is high time to start. I'll begin with GT.
Goku SSJ4 defeat Baby and can evently fight with Super 17 (until the absorption of Kamehameha x10), but he is no match for Syn Shenron, even the Kamehameha times ten did'nt anything. But he is defeated by a Goku SSJ4 beyond limits. Syn Shenron was stronger than Kamehamrha times ten of Goku, but weaker than Goku Beyond Limits (who is recovered by 3 SSJ, so 30 times stronger = 1 200 000x). I think Syn Shenron = 20x Goku SSJ4 so, that's 800 000x stronger than Goku SSJ3.

When Li Shenron is born, he said he is ten times stronger than before or more. So, 8 000 000x stronger than Goku SSJ3. The power of Gogeta is impossible to mesure, so i think it's almost the same multiplication of Vegito.

It was stated the fusion won't be enough versus Bills. So, even a Vegito SSJ3 can't win. Vegito SSJ3 = 50 000 x 8 = 400 000x Goku SSJ3. And this is compared to Bills (Heavily Supressed). Then, Goku SSJG say he doesn't imagined a such power (talking about his own). So, he is beyond Vegito SSJ3, but that wasn't enough to beat Bills, and Whis is even stronger.

So we have :
1)Gogeta SSJ4
2)Whis
3)Bills
4)Goku SSJG
5)Omega Shenron
6)Goku SSJ4
7)Vegeta SSJ4
8)Super 17
9)Baby Vegeta
10)Nuova Shenron


If i forget anything, doesn't hesite to tell me what.
Edited by Venato, Apr 17 2014, 02:05 AM.
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King Kakarot
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Dbgt scales from the anime which was Ftl in the freiza saga.

Also kid buu wreaking a galaxy on screen meaning Large star buster and he won't even tickle rildo with those attack not to mention ssj4 gogeta who by powerscaling off of kid buu feat can tank multiple hypernova attacks at the very least.

Since hypernova is 100x supernova and common sense tells you gogeta is far more than 100x kid buu who can destroy stars
Edited by King Kakarot, Apr 17 2014, 02:32 AM.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

I think it works like this these days:
SSJ4 Gogeta
Super Yi Xing Long
SSJ4 Goku(Beyond Limits)
Whis
Beerus
Yi Xing Long
Godku
SSJ4 Goku
Si XIng Long
SSJ4 Vegeta
San Xing Long
Super 17
Super Bebi Vegeta 2
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Apr 17 2014, 02:52 AM.
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Event Horizon
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Apr 17 2014, 02:32 AM
I think it works like this these days:
SSJ4 Gogeta
Super Yi Xing Long
SSJ4 Goku(Beyond Limits)
Whis
Beerus
Godku
SSJ4 Goku
Si XIng Long
SSJ4 Vegeta
San Xing Long
Super 17
Super Bebi Vegeta 2
Where would you place Yi Xing Long?
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魔王子

Above Godku but below Beerus.
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Venato
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Oh, i did a mistake in my PS. I'll only count the best form for each

1)Gogeta (SSJ4)
2)Omega Shenron
3)Whis
4)Bills
5)Goku (SSJG)
6)Vegeta (SSJ4)
7)Super 17 (after Kamehameha times 10 absorption)
8)Vegito (SSJ3)
9)Baby (Oozaru)
10)Nuova Shenron
11)Eis Shenron
12)Naturon Shenron (Pan absorbed)
13)Majuub
14)Janemba
15)Hildegarn
16)Buuhan
17)Mystic Gohan
18)Gotenks (SSJ3)
19)Meta-Rilldo
20)Oceanus Shenron

Edited by Venato, Apr 17 2014, 10:53 AM.
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Event Horizon
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エンペラー

This power scaling of yours, it's based on the assumption that Goku was referring to Pure Buu when he said Rilld is stronger than Buu, but what if he was actually referring to Gohan-Buu instead?

Are you using anime or manga for SSJ3 Goku's power?
If you're using anime, then no problem, but if you're using manga and he was actually referring to Gohan-Buu, GT Goku would be vastly superior to DBZ SSJ3 Goku.

I don't have a problem with your scaling, except that Hirudegarn > Gohan-Buu > Janemba.
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+ Emmeth
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Birusu and Whis being stronger than only Super Vegetto is fine with me. I can see them being above Super Baby Vegeta too, but not his last form or Oozaru.
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Venato
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Yushin :
Goku says Rildo is stronger than Buu to Pan and Trunks. We know :
-Trunks saw only Majin Buu and Super Buu.
- Pan wasn't even alive when Super Buu was.

The only Boo either of them know is Majin Buu. I think if it was a Buu who doesn't know by Trunks and Pan, Goku would have said, this is not the case. It makes more sense that Goku talking about the Buu alive rather than one that is long dead (as nobody speaks Piccolo died long ago compared to one who is alive), especially if they have made a wish through Shenron for this Buu there be forgotten (so there is no chance he spoke of evil Buu and its different forms has his granddaughter). Moreover, it seems to me that FUNinamation he speaks of Majin Buu.

In short it is therefore not a matter of opinion, but of logic. Personally I trust the manga because Toei contradicts itself in power relations of Buu forms.

- According to them Kid Buu is the strongest Buu form.
- However, we see Goku compete with the same Buu and even said he can defeat him.

This would mean that Goku is already powerful enough to beat the other Buu. But then again there are three problems:

- In one episode, Goku is beaten by Buutenks. Aside from when Buu is distracted, Goku is unable to put him a hit.

- As in the manga, Goku says he is weaker than Super Buu.

- Goku proposed fusion facing Buutenks, Buuhan and even Super Buu. But it destroys Potalas against Kid Buu.

So I prefer to use the manga, where power relations are clear and never contradict (especially in the VO, where the claim of Kibitoshin compared to Kid Buu, is more ambiguous).

After not. What I said was that Janemba> Hirudegarn> Buuhan. The reason

-Hildegarn beat Gotenks SSJ3 and Mystic Gohan in ONE HIT. Buutenks has trouble getting rid of Mystic Gohan, and Buuhan is not much stronger than Buutenks. So Hirudegarn > Buuhan.

- It is said that Janemba is stronger than Hirudegarn. The fact that Goku gives him a bit of trouble at the beginning is due to the fact that it releases all its strength against Gogeta SSJ ( Indeed, Janemba focuses his ki when Gogeta appears). So Janemba > Hirudegarn > Buuhan.

Edited by Venato, Apr 29 2014, 02:13 PM.
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Base Vegetto = Boohan, eh? You have Elder Kaioshin's line for that one?
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Topographic Oceans
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I dunno about anime base Vegetto, honestly. Even after seeing him deflecting that huge attack, Boo was still confident about winning and Vegetto still felt the need to trasform.
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Venato
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Apparently the Old Kai say it only in the French version (in fact, I'm french). In all cases, the power difference may not be very great. Vegito base is at least 800x stronger than Goku SSJ3 (it's a bit stronger than Mystic Gohan and a bit weaker than Buuhan), so 40 000x in SSJ ( Which is equal to the power of Goku SSJ4 in my power scaling, which coincides with the claim that Vegito has a level equal and perhaps superior to a SSJ4).
Edited by Venato, Apr 17 2014, 03:49 PM.
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Gogetto
Apr 17 2014, 03:48 PM
Apparently the Old Kai say it only in the French version (in fact, I'm french). In all cases, the power difference may not be very great. Vegito base is at least 800x stronger than Goku SSJ3 (it's a bit stronger than Mystic Gohan and a bit weaker than Buuhan), so 40 000x in SSJ ( Which is equal to the power of Goku SSJ4 in my power scaling, which coincides with the claim that Vegito has a level equal and perhaps superior to a SSJ4).
It's not said in the manga or Japanese anime (the opposite is said in the latter), so I'm afraid I am not willing to put any stock in that.

Either way, this is good and all, but it is your personal opinion on things, and where you see things lining up. For instance, quite a few others here have Super Saiyan 4 Goku a ways ahead of Super Saiyan Vegetto, and don't fully understand the notion that Base Goku equals his Super Saiyan 3 power from before. The latter seems like a widely spread notion these days, but without a substantial backing behind it, like it was merely a simple benchmark to work from. There's also a majority belief here that the Super Saiyan multipliers decrease to small numbers in GT (2.5x for regular Super Saiyan, to give an example), so those calculations would be wildly different from someone like yours.

Not to mention fan calculations in general aren't used often anymore, at least not here. Too many variables for some people.
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Event Horizon
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Wait, I'm curious, when exactly did Trunks see Pure Buu? He was unconscious when Pure Buu destroyed Earth.

Trunks knows Good Buu and he only saw Fat Buu and Evil Buu.

I know what you were saying, haha. I'm saying that the majority, including me have Hirudegarn > Gohan-Buu > Janemba.
Hirudegarn should be loads stronger than Janemba. Janemba isn't even stronger than Evil Buu, IMO. The fact that SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta were able to stand up to him, whereas Hirudegarn knocked SSJ3 Gotenks out of Fusion and effortlessly defeated Ultimate Gohan (two characters who are a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku). Besides, if I'm not mistaken, mot people think Gogeta would need SSJ2 or even SSJ3 to handle Evil Buu, who is considerably weaker than Gohan-Buu.
The "Janemba > Hirudegarn" statement is quite the uneducated statement, besides it has been removed and oddly enough it was never, ever stated anywhere else.
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lazerbem
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Beers and Whis are stooges, they hit Second Form Bebi Tier at best, nothing beyond that
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