Gap between SSJ3 Goku and SSJ Vegito?

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Gap between SSJ3 Goku and SSJ Vegito?
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 9 2014, 09:57 PM (3,823 Views)
+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 10 2014, 09:06 PM Post #76
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	its an excuse cause he hadnt seen anything if he was ready piccolo would have been like okay rest up then fight not heres a test a vital question could be about strength too, if hes not strong enough how can he hurt buu and ect.. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8586340&t=8348696



+ Pyrus	Apr 10 2014, 09:11 PM Post #77
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Havoc_Wreaker Apr 10 2014, 08:57 PM the point was he had some doubt in his mind about gotenks where he never did with goku, he wanted goku to fight but goku refused twice i believe thats the point doubting vs not doubting no one has ever countered gokus is stronger later claim, EVER goku says gotenks is stronger then a goku who cant win against fat buu fair enough but now at kid buu goku nothing is said cept that is stronger then before You can't use that against Gotenks. Did you forget Piccolo just saw two failed fusions? And what was his specific request? Speed, of course. Why not ask about power if it wasn't there? That can only heavily lean toward the power in fact being there, and the only attribute needing to be confirmed was speed. Goku's power never changed. I still am at a loss for why you perceive it this way, but regardless, it has frail legs to stand on. From the outset of the battle between Goku and Fat Boo, it's clear in Piccolo's mind who is the stronger of the two, thus we know from that that Goku was stronger than Fat Boo. Goku was still unsure of Boo's power at that point, hence him denying his ability to win. When all was said and done later on, after that Boo had essentially ceased to exist, Goku realized he could have won had he gone all-out. There's no need for a random plothole to develop when there's already a very feasible elucidation of the matter. Concerning your linked post above, those complaints are obvious in the narrative of the manga. We must trust Goku's word on Fusion as he was the only one who had seen it been performed, and had therefore seen its results. You can't cherry-pick what you want to take seriously from a character as you are doing here; you can't say Goku's wrong about everything Fusion-related but correct about everything other than that. It all must be substantiated, and doubt brought on by not believing has never been that type of evidence, and never will be. Edited by Pyrus, Apr 10 2014, 09:19 PM.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 10 2014, 09:15 PM Post #78
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	im not saying gotenks isnt strong or what not but the point of this is that piccolo still had a doubt like when he had some doubt that goku would lose to fat buu its entirely plausible that ssj gotenks isnt stronger everyone seems to just believe goku even krillen thought base gotenks could win agasint super buu, blind faith, even piccolo considered there was a chance that gotenks could fight super buu



+ Pyrus	Apr 10 2014, 09:30 PM Post #79
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Havoc_Wreaker Apr 10 2014, 09:15 PM im not saying gotenks isnt strong or what not but the point of this is that piccolo still had a doubt like when he had some doubt that goku would lose to fat buu its entirely plausible that ssj gotenks isnt stronger everyone seems to just believe goku even krillen thought base gotenks could win agasint super buu, blind faith, even piccolo considered there was a chance that gotenks could fight super buu That plausibility comes with little substantiation (a word I seem to be throwing around a lot lately). We can only theorize why Krillin had hope of Base Gotenks beating Boo. Maybe he thought the fusion was suppressed, maybe he thought he had a special move, maybe he thought purple elephants would distract Boo long enough for Gotenks to find a way to win. Who knows. We do know from Piccolo that Gotenks was not strong enough at that point, and we know it very clearly from his words. Super Saiyan Gotenks, on the other hand, had nothing detracting from his preconceived placement. Piccolo wanting to run one test (not power-related, again) for safety's sake does not override every other statement and implication; that he had "a doubt" does not invalidate anything, and does not fall under the necessary means to contradict the staple "statements are right until contradicted" ideal. We don't get that Gotenks isn't strong enough from Piccolo's doubt there, so we shouldn't be extrapolating that cautionary measure to carry over into something else, is all I'm saying. I don't care to get into the post-RoSaT Base Gotenks stuff. That side of the business doesn't interest me because it will always come down to the gag excuse and whether or not people consider the whole scene a gag or particular bits of it.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 10 2014, 09:44 PM Post #80
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	fair enough about the rosat and gag but even piccolo implores the idea of gotenks fighting supa buu before the rosat Kuririn: “Wha…What?...D-don’t tell me you’re saying this is bad!? …It’s al-alright! We’ve got the squirts’ Fusion! Goku said that right? That Fusion was the strongest…!” Dende: “…” Piccolo: “…That’d be nice, but…” granted he never says anything out right but he seems to think what krillen says is plausible but with doubts not till a bit later does he say never mind i was totally wrong piccolos constant misjudgment causes various doubts in readers minds and i still like the idea that goku somewhat implies that hes stronger then gotenks by saying he could beat fat buu, since we dont know the gap between fatty and gotenks, u cant deny that theres good reason to assume so when we find out goku was lying the whole time also go to kaiba corp and officially join the tourney u punk Edited by Havoc_Wreaker, Apr 11 2014, 01:23 AM.



sylentknyte	Apr 11 2014, 04:46 AM Post #81
Posts: 790 Group: Member Member #5,932 Joined: March 30, 2011	I have SSJ Vegetio around 35 trillion and SSJ3 Goku around 1 trillion.



+ Pyrus	Apr 11 2014, 03:19 PM Post #82
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Havoc_Wreaker Apr 10 2014, 09:44 PM fair enough about the rosat and gag but even piccolo implores the idea of gotenks fighting supa buu before the rosat Kuririn: “Wha…What?...D-don’t tell me you’re saying this is bad!? …It’s al-alright! We’ve got the squirts’ Fusion! Goku said that right? That Fusion was the strongest…!” Dende: “…” Piccolo: “…That’d be nice, but…” granted he never says anything out right but he seems to think what krillen says is plausible but with doubts not till a bit later does he say never mind i was totally wrong piccolos constant misjudgment causes various doubts in readers minds and i still like the idea that goku somewhat implies that hes stronger then gotenks by saying he could beat fat buu, since we dont know the gap between fatty and gotenks, u cant deny that theres good reason to assume so when we find out goku was lying the whole time also go to kaiba corp and officially join the tourney u punk I believe that passage took place before Evil Boo had powered up to the point where he surpassed Gotenks so badly that Piccolo immediately rushed to toss the boys into the RoSaT. Piccolo's power judgments aren't inconsistent from what I saw of them. He gave us vital statements about Majin Vegeta, Fat Boo, Base Gotenks (pre-RoSaT), and Evil Boo. I don't think Goku implied anything when that revelation was made. He couldn't beat Boo before, even being stronger, but then could. Gotenks wasn't included anywhere in his comparison, so I wouldn't see a reason to include him myself. It's not necessarily that Goku was lying at the time he talked to Piccolo, because like has been mentioned, he was unsure of Boo's ki back then; when he later made the assessment, said Boo was gone and Goku could make a definite affirmation without being contradicted later on. Voila. As for the actual topic in the OP, I'd give the gap a minimum of at least 50x. Also, I just skimmed pages beforehand and found this comment from Ketchup. The Assassin And considering that Goku thought that himself in Super Saiyan was a suitable fusee with Gohan, it really points to Goku not being thousands of times weaker than Gohan; and likely being much closer. Like in the single digits or 10s. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8818013&t=8429480 Edited by Pyrus, Apr 11 2014, 03:28 PM.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 11 2014, 04:59 PM Post #83
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	it was was before power up but even goku felt that it was something while piccolo didnt really, till he got closer i think piccolo has a few hiccups, i think we got 2-3 last time in our debate- so still misleading as per the goku being stronger later on i mean theres two quote, seems plausible to me, not only does goku say as much but so does vegeta, he did see ssj3 and did feel its power, and later on yes vegeta is seeing it up close but nonetheless, its stronger then he imagined Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8, P11.1-3 Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?” Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…” Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?” Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…” Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6 Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…” Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…” Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…” really just seems goku was much stronger all along, he just really really didnt want to fight and vegeta qutote: Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.6 Vegeta: “The truth is you were right [that I’d be killed by Boo]. That Boo is stronger than I imagined…And so are you, Kakarot…” and also whats ur gap kp, between it all? has ur mind changed? just wondering Edited by Havoc_Wreaker, Apr 11 2014, 05:02 PM.



* Yu Narukami	Apr 11 2014, 08:46 PM Post #84
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SSJ3 Goku : 1 SSJ Gotenks (Pre) : 1.2 Base Gotenks (Post) : 2 SSJ Gotenks (Post) : 100 SSJ2 Gotenks (Post) : 200 SSJ3 Gotenks (Post) : 800 Ultimate Gohan : 1,100 Boohan : 1,900 Base Vegetto : 60 SSJ Vegetto : 3,000 So, a 3000x gap using SEG multipliers for me, but using my multipliers, it'd be getting into the 10/20,000s.



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