Is the SSJ ability a mental or physical thing?

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Is the SSJ ability a mental or physical thing?
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 7 2014, 01:23 PM (634 Views)
Reldar	Apr 7 2014, 01:23 PM Post #1
Posts: 182 Group: Member Member #9,086 Joined: February 21, 2013	By which I mean, if SSJ Goku were to trade bodies with pre-SSJ Vegeta, would he be able to transform in Vegeta's body? Or would it require another anger inducing situation? And vica versa of course. Would Vegeta be able to go SSJ in Goku's body? I assume he wouldn't know how to. What if Goku's body was already in SSJ mode when they switched? How would Vegeta handle it? Edited by Reldar, Apr 7 2014, 01:25 PM.



+ Ssj3vegito96	Apr 7 2014, 02:03 PM Post #2
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	I think its mental. He should be able turn ssj in pre ssj vegetas body too
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


AvatarReiko	Apr 7 2014, 02:52 PM Post #3
Posts: 493 Group: Member Member #10,670 Joined: January 3, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Bleach, Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Bleach	Its kind of both when you think about it. Goku's body is physically capable of transforming into a ssj. His body can release the energy required to transform into SSJ but uses his mind to initiate the transformation. Vegeta's body would not be able to release the dormant ssh energy. If Goku were to change bodies with vegeta he would not be able to transform as Vegeta's body is currently not capable of transforming and releasing the ssj energy. On the contrary Vegeta may not know how to transform in Goku's, similarly to how Ginyu(in Goku's body) could not utilise Goku's full powers. Goku stated ''You got to fight with your mind and your body''



+ Ssj3vegito96	Apr 7 2014, 02:57 PM Post #4
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	I don't think you have to be strong enough to turn ssj do you?
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


AvatarReiko	Apr 7 2014, 03:12 PM Post #5
Posts: 493 Group: Member Member #10,670 Joined: January 3, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Bleach, Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Bleach	Ssj3vegito96 Apr 7 2014, 02:57 PM I don't think you have to be strong enough to turn ssj do you? Well, it is not openly stated but I presumed that a saiyan would have to advance to a high level before exploding with anger and rage from some kind of emotional trauma . Goku was incredible strong and had reached a new plateau when he faced Frieza in his final form. Also, I do recall Goku telling Trunks that he struggled to transform initially.



* Ketchup Revenge	Apr 8 2014, 05:53 AM Post #6
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	As far as my understanding goes, it's a combination of both. I've always considered the possibility that a Saiyan needs to exhaust their zenkai ability before they are able to go Super Saiyan. Since Zenkai isn't seen in canon past Super Saiyan, the Saiyan's bodies instinctively develop a transformation in order to compensate for the sudden inability to gain huge amounts of power through injury or training. Ki itself is a combination of mind and body, and this is the reason why Ginyu wasn't able to use Goku's full power when they switched bodies. For example, if Krillin somehow switched bodies with Goku in the Boo Arc, he wouldn't be able to transform, despite Goku's body being able to go SSj3. The reason being that Krillin doesn't know how to transform. You can't simply keep increasing ki in a form and reach a new form. You'll actually hit a peak in that form, and the only way to keep increasing would be to transform. However, transformations work in tiers. Almost like steps on a latter. The ki doesn't increase linearly through all forms. Unless you know about ki suppression, there's gaps in base-ki levels between forms. So think of the ki in these forms in steps or levels. So unless it's the initial transformation, which often requires a catalyst, it seems that Super Saiyan transformations have to be learned. If Goku had entered Vegeta's body, it's likely that he wouldn't have been able to pulled off a transformation, despite him knowing how to do it mentally. Vegeta's body simply wouldn't have been ready for it. Evidence to this mental engagement for transformations is when Goku says that he actually had to adjust to SSj in order to transform. He told Future Trunks that initially, he wasn't able to do it at will, and had to learn how to consciously initiate it through training. When Goten asked Gohan if he could be a Super Saiyan during their training, Gohan doubted Goten's ability, and simply replied that he himself had to work hard and learn how to do it from Goku. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Apr 8 2014, 06:05 AM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


AvatarReiko	Apr 8 2014, 06:18 AM Post #7
Posts: 493 Group: Member Member #10,670 Joined: January 3, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Bleach, Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Bleach	The Assassin Apr 8 2014, 05:53 AM As far as my understanding goes, it's a combination of both. I've always considered the possibility that a Saiyan needs to exhaust their zenkai ability before they are able to go Super Saiyan. Since Zenkai isn't seen in canon past Super Saiyan, the Saiyan's bodies instinctively develop a transformation in order to compensate for the sudden inability to gain huge amounts of power through injury or training. Ki itself is a combination of mind and body, and this is the reason why Ginyu wasn't able to use Goku's full power when they switched bodies. For example, if Krillin somehow switched bodies with Goku in the Boo Arc, he wouldn't be able to transform, despite Goku's body being able to go SSj3. The reason being that Krillin doesn't know how to transform. You can't simply keep increasing ki in a form and reach a new form. You'll actually hit a peak in that form, and the only way to keep increasing would be to transform. However, transformations work in tiers. Almost like steps on a latter. The ki doesn't increase linearly through all forms. Unless you know about ki suppression, there's gaps in base-ki levels between forms. So think of the ki in these forms in steps or levels. So unless it's the initial transformation, which often requires a catalyst, it seems that Super Saiyan transformations have to be learned. If Goku had entered Vegeta's body, it's likely that he wouldn't have been able to pulled off a transformation, despite him knowing how to do it mentally. Vegeta's body simply wouldn't have been ready for it. Evidence to this mental engagement for transformations is when Goku says that he actually had to adjust to SSj in order to transform. He told Future Trunks that initially, he wasn't able to do it at will, and had to learn how to consciously initiate it through training. When Goten asked Gohan if he could be a Super Saiyan during their training, Gohan doubted Goten's ability, and simply replied that he himself had to work hard and learn how to do it from Goku. Agreed. I couldn't have said it better myself.



AA500	Apr 8 2014, 05:51 PM Post #8
Posts: 2,079 Group: Member Member #9,363 Joined: April 11, 2013 Gender Not Specified	More mental than physical, if at all physical. Vegeta's body probably could've SSJ if Goku had been in it. We see one armed Gohan in base sparring SSJ Trunks and Trunks is the one breaking a sweat after all



AvatarReiko	Apr 8 2014, 09:52 PM Post #9
Posts: 493 Group: Member Member #10,670 Joined: January 3, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Bleach, Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Bleach	Kingsley Apr 8 2014, 05:51 PM More mental than physical, if at all physical. Vegeta's body probably could've SSJ if Goku had been in it. We see one armed Gohan in base sparring SSJ Trunks and Trunks is the one breaking a sweat after all I doubt it. Its like saying that it Goku's mind was put in Bardock's body, he'd be able to turn ssj. Vegeta had reached his limits during his fight against Frieza, and we all know how that eneded. His power had increased substantially after his Zenki boost, to the point that started claiming he had become a SSJ, but Frieza still beat him, without breaking as much as finger nail. There was a big margin between Goku and Vegeta's powers following Goku's recovery.. Had Goku have been in his body, he wouldn't have been able to intiate the SSJ transformation as Vegeta had not reached Goku's level of power, whereas Goku on the other hand had all the prerequitetes needed to transform. From the moment of recovery, all Goku needed was a spark to set him off. Furthermore, had goku been in Vegeta's body, and tried to turn SSJ, he would have found himself making the exact same mistake as Gohan did, attempting to reach the form by increasing his PL. "The power comes in a response from need, not a desire" Vegeta's body would need Vegeta's couciousness to trigger the transformation. It is sort of like how Babi was unable to turn SSJ4 due to Vegeta not regaining couciousness. The reason, I think for Vegeta's ssj transformation being different than everyone else is that he had a selfish desire to attain the form, whereas Goku, Marai Trunks and Gohan all exploded with anger from emotional truma and Gohan with the need to protect his loved ones.This is why Vegeta struggled. Edited by AvatarReiko, Apr 8 2014, 09:54 PM.



Deleted User	Apr 8 2014, 10:02 PM Post #10
Deleted User	I'm pretty sure it's a combo of both.
Deleted User


FollowtheLeader	Apr 8 2014, 10:17 PM Post #11
Posts: 1,653 Group: Member Member #7,064 Joined: December 12, 2011 Gender Not Specified Favourite Manga Berserk	It's metal, physical, and as we've seen with Trunks and Goten, genetic.



AvatarReiko	Apr 8 2014, 11:13 PM Post #12
Posts: 493 Group: Member Member #10,670 Joined: January 3, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Bleach, Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Bleach	FollowtheLeader Apr 8 2014, 10:17 PM It's metal, physical, and as we've seen with Trunks and Goten, genetic. Goten and Trunks were freaks of nature and prodigies.



* Ketchup Revenge	Apr 9 2014, 03:53 PM Post #13
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	FollowtheLeader Apr 8 2014, 10:17 PM It's metal, physical, and as we've seen with Trunks and Goten, genetic. There's no evidence that Goten and Trunks were born Super Saiyans. However, I've always considered the possibility that Goten and Trunks weren't born with zenkai ability. If my theory about the need to exhaust zenkai ability before you can initiate Super Saiyan is true, then that would mean that Goten and Trunks were born with exhausted zenkai ability because of the fact that they weren't born with it in the first place. Evidence to them having considerable human genetic traits is supplemented by the fact that there's no evidence of them being born with tails. It's possible that no-zenkai was one of these traits that they were born with. By default, a simple toddler tantrum could've turned them Super Saiyan when they were 3 years old.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


AvatarReiko	Apr 9 2014, 04:29 PM Post #14
Posts: 493 Group: Member Member #10,670 Joined: January 3, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Bleach, Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga Bleach	The Assassin Apr 9 2014, 03:53 PM FollowtheLeader Apr 8 2014, 10:17 PM It's metal, physical, and as we've seen with Trunks and Goten, genetic. There's no evidence that Goten and Trunks were born Super Saiyans. However, I've always considered the possibility that Goten and Trunks weren't born with zenkai ability. If my theory about the need to exhaust zenkai ability before you can initiate Super Saiyan is true, then that would mean that Goten and Trunks were born with exhausted zenkai ability because of the fact that they weren't born with it in the first place. Evidence to them having considerable human genetic traits is supplemented by the fact that there's no evidence of them being born with tails. It's possible that no-zenkai was one of these traits that they were born with. By default, a simple toddler tantrum could've turned them Super Saiyan when they were 3 years old. I always saw Goten and Trunks as anomalies/exceptions. Furthermore, them being able to go SSJ so young is a plot device for later on in the series, as precursor to them fusing with each other.



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