- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- The Lounge
- →
- Deep Discussion
- →
- Abortion Disussion and Arguments
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| Abortion Disussion and Arguments | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 31 2014, 11:58 PM (11,993 Views) | |
| EMIYA | Apr 1 2014, 03:03 PM Post #46 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
There's your next problem Lunar. You treat a fetus as a human being when in fact it is not a human being. It might grow up to be a human being but then again so could my sperm and I will again point out to you as I did before. We don't have an Anti-Sperm/Pro-Sperm thing going on here. your grandmother is an actual cognitive human being who mind you has probably done a lot more for herself and others than the fetus has done. Don't even try to claim that aborting a fetus and breaking your grandmother's skull is the same thing. Your grandmother is a cognitive human being capable of making her own decisions and even if she doesn't, if she's impotent to some degree, we have things that actually help with that situation. We have homes that care for the elderly in these situations that helps bring the stress off of the family members. Your grandmother has actually probably given something to society in return. She has made a distinction in her life and there's a huge difference between beating the **** out of someone who you probably have known for a long time and has many other loved ones and family members that have cared for her across the decades. And aborting some nameless fetus that the woman clearly doesn't want and has made a total of ZERO IMPACT on society. Do not dare try to claim the two are the same. |
 |
 
|
| Tonneh | Apr 1 2014, 03:03 PM Post #47 |
 
|
This thread was about peoples opinions on the issue. It's fine to think what you think but don't dismiss other peoples opinions because you don't agree with it. Mind you, you have swayed my position on the issue. It's too hard to define what would be morally right, it can either be legal or not. I believe it should be legal. |
| |
|
|
|
| EMIYA | Apr 1 2014, 03:16 PM Post #48 |
|
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
It's the difference in something like this. Killing isn't wrong because we're told its wrong. The morality behind killing changes throughout history. Killing is wrong because we denotes a negative impact on someone or something. For example if you kill someone, the consequences are you go to prison. That negative effect is a reminder to you that your actions are obliged by societal rules that are given and governed. You could imagine what happen if we didn't have rules or anything and just went by the honor code. This is what keeps people, assumedly, from committing crimes. It's not a moral thing (that might help) but its an effect that negative impact of the crime will overweight the positive outcomes. When a person believes that the positives will outweigh the negatives, they will commit the crime. It's a lot more vivid to express something as: "If you kill, you will get the chair and you will be executed for your crime." and "If you kill, well that's just wrong." One of them has a much deeper impact on a person than the other did because it gives specification. I mean you could even put it on a religious value. People follow (assumingly again) the Ten Commandments not just because its morally right but because the negative impact (damnation) helps put a strong indication on it. You could imagine what would happen if none of these had any negative impacts on you. Crimes would increase substantially because there'd be no fear of repercussion. So we get back to abortion and for Anti-Abortion, you've got to provide the evidence beyond moral support that shows the negative impact outweighs the positive and be able to give reason for that. You do the same for Pro-Abortion. You claim that the positive outcomes of abortion, outweight the negatives and you give proven reasons for that. |
|
|
|
| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 1 2014, 03:36 PM Post #49 |
 
|
To me, if the baby is alive, then no abortion. If it's alive but the woman isn't capable of properly raising a child, then she should give it up for adoption. It may not be fair to the woman but it's also not fair to the baby to just kill it because the woman wanted to have sex for her own pleasure. If the woman was raped then she should see if she's pregnant and abort as soon as possible before it gets too far |
IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
|
| Topographic Oceans | Apr 1 2014, 03:47 PM Post #50 |
|
Most people don't know the circumstances that lead someone to an abortion, so it's easy to come and say that it's bad and shouldn't happen. A grown woman will always be more important than an unborn fetus, in my opinion. So yeah, I'm totally pro-choice. Just my two cents on the matter. Most other things I could say were already said by others in this thread. Edited by Topographic Oceans, Apr 1 2014, 03:49 PM.
|
 Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
| * Ketchup Revenge | Apr 1 2014, 05:16 PM Post #51 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
|
I am also pro-choice. I used to be pro-life, but not any more. I also don't believe in the whole "life begins at conception" thing. Even though that is technically true from a biological stand-point, it's not true for the routine functions of advanced life. As far as my understanding goes, if an advanced life form is unable to even support itself biologically for a few minutes without assistance, than it's not alive in the sense that we can consider it "human life". I'm also going to indiscriminately point out that this also includes people who have been considered brain dead. However, I do also believe that people should be responsible for their actions. Even if you didn't want the kid, if you believe that you could raise a kid to be a successful adult, than I don't see why you should opt for aborting it. That's just lazy and irresponsible. |
 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2014, 05:16 PM Post #52 |
|
Brofist has already done a good enough job, but I may as well type out my thoughts. Abortion and sexual rights go hand in hand with feminism. To fully understand abortion, one must first understand that men and women are still not equal. Men cannot bear children. Women can. It's a basic biological difference that continues to make it difficult for women to attain the same rights that men have. Let me create a scenario for you. A man and a woman are dating. They both agree that they want to have sex because they are attracted to each other, find each other pleasing, and want to share that affection. They use protection. Later on, the woman discovers that she is pregnant, and the man that she has sex with abandons her to deal with the pregnancy on her own. This is a scenario that happens very often. Is it fair? No. But guess what? If the man has the right to leave the child, so does the woman. Is that a bit more fair? Yes. We need to make things equal here. Lunar, you are placing men in higher regard than women with your argument. You're making it legal for men to abandon a fetus, but not for a woman to do the same. A woman cannot just up and leave like a man can because the fetus is inside of her, but she can abort it if she chooses to. Why? Because she is equal to a man, and she can make her own decisions the same way that a man can. Does this argument make any sense to you? Let me create another scenario. Two college students have sex while drunk and don't use protection. This type of situation happens all the time. But this time, the woman gets pregnant, and the man abandons her to deal with it on her own. You may argue that it is her fault for getting drunk and having sex without protection, but do you know how she feels? The man who impregnated her abandoned her. She has to deal with this on her own. She's in college, and now her whole life is ruined because she made one simple mistake with someone, and now she bears all of the responsibility for it. Not the man, but her. As a woman. Is that fair? No. I understand that life isn't fair, but when we're dealing with inequality between two genders, it's an issue. This is a gendered issue. Lunar, your argument about your grandmother is ridiculous, but I won't respond to it because Brofist already has.
Yeah. So what? Religion should play no part in this, and I don't want to talk about it. Eat me.  Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Apr 1 2014, 05:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
| * Yu Narukami | Apr 1 2014, 05:39 PM Post #53 |
|
Izanagi!
|
You should know as well as I do that Religion inevitably plays a vital role in the abortion argument, at least for one side. I'm not saying I agree with it at all, but saying that Religion shouldn't be a part of the discussion is essentially shutting down part of the opposing argument, which isn't the best move to make. Religion is an aspect of the debate just like every other factor, so you can't expect people to not put it forward. Personally, I'm 'Pro-Choice', if labels are really necessary. It should be the woman's right to choose whether she wants to carry a fetus around for months before giving birth to it. |
|
|
|
| EMIYA | Apr 1 2014, 05:39 PM Post #54 |
|
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
Even if you added the point that you made a law that men had to stay with a pregnant woman, you'd still get into issues. 1.) You'd have to make sure that man could be found and proven as the father of the child. But still, what does this say about the woman's physical nature? If birthing was as easy as sneezing, we wouldn't have a problem. A woman could wake up go "Darn it I'm pregnant. ACHO!" And hand the baby over to the doctors, tell them to adopt it somewhere and then go to McDonalds, maybe have some unprotected sex later just to be ironic. Even if we have both partners agreeing to stay, the overall outcome of the birth and fetus lies within the mother (both physically and metaphorically.) And you shouldn't have to force this physical oppression on woman with her own body. It's like there's this thing going on where people are looking at a fetus in the terms of "What it could potentially be" and not what it actually is. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 1 2014, 05:50 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Apr 1 2014, 06:32 PM Post #55 |
|
Deleted User
|
Removed |
|
|
|
| EMIYA | Apr 1 2014, 07:20 PM Post #56 |
|
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
It makes me wonder if some people have any idea how tough it is to take care of children regardless of the situation. Be it a mother, father, adoptive agency, grandparent, etc. In the past children were very important for two reasons. One we needed that population increase due to the fact that the health of children was not all that high. A second very important issue is that children were a way of labor for families. The moment a child could actually start doing something, they were sent to work and they provided for the family in a way that helped them. Now a days in our western culture, most kids don't start working until their mid teenage years, some of them don't work until later and that's not even getting into the idea of college or other expenses. This is why people had a lot of children too in the past. Population and labor, it was incredibly helpful for the family because literally everyone once they got to a certain age did work. But now this doesn't happen anymore. Parents are expected to raise children until usually about the age of 18 I believe (It might be 16 I can't recall at the top of my head). By law until that child reaches a certain age, usually between that 16-18 years of age, the caregivers are required to pay expenses for that child. We have this image of children as these wonderful things and that if you have a child in our life with a good family, you are the best in the world. I don't mean to smack reality into anyone's face since I know of the posters here do have or will have children but...it's not that easy. 1.) Children lead to a decrease in marital happiness. Mind you the divorce rate in the USA is already higher than 50%. 2.) Children add in extra expenses to an already inflated economy that we live in 3.) Unlike the past, children aren't required to work or provide for anyone or themselves until a specific age. Until then, the caregivers are required by law to do it. 4.) The stress added by children. It's an overall aspect that people much like in marriages overall seem to forget. We see marriage and children as these great things and don't realize until its too late that, its not nearly as good as you might think. I would even go as far as to claim that in our western society, especially in the USA, having children provides more negatives than they do positives. |
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Apr 1 2014, 07:31 PM Post #57 |
|
Deleted User
|
I feel like the main issue with people who are all for abortion is that they look at fetuses as less than human, when in reality they're the same. Look at this little fetus here. How can you guys say that he's not human? http://illuminationstudios.com/archives/139/fetal-development |
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 1 2014, 07:36 PM Post #58 |
|
A human being is capable of thoughts, emotions, happiness, etc. A human being has had past experiences and learned from them; a human being actually exists in this world. I do not consider a fetus or sperm to be the same as an already living human being. Sorry. I would never kill my brother who I love. I would kill a fetus if it was threatening my life because it is not the same. We can't even determine its gender until a much later point in the pregnancy because it hasn't developed as a human being. When I can see a month old fetus smile and laugh at me and see that sparkle in its eyes, maybe then I would consider it a human being. But that will never happen. |
|
|
|
| + Pelador | Apr 1 2014, 07:42 PM Post #59 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
|
As far as I'm concerned, it's no different to a heart or a lung. |
 http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits | |
|
|
|
| SaiyanHajime | Apr 1 2014, 07:45 PM Post #60 |
|
Sort of irrelevant but just to throw a spanner in the works and get people's brains working,
What if couple have drunken sex, male doesn't want to keep it, female does? Should the dude have to pay to support a child he never wanted and had less* power to stop happening? *Unfortunate biological fact that females have more opportunity to prevent a pregnancy than males do, since it's their body. With power comes responsibility. Serious question? Not sure how I feel myself. I think perhaps men should be entitled to "opt out", but with that comes forgoing ALL contact with both mother and child. |
|
Twitter | deviantArt | Tumblr | |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
 Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Register Now |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Deep Discussion · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:36 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy