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| Clearly Spoilers - Why I do not consider Battle of the Gods canon. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 31 2014, 11:32 PM (1,452 Views) | |
| FourSeven | Mar 31 2014, 11:32 PM Post #1 |
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Recently, I watched the Dragonball Z movie, Battle of the Gods. And while enjoyable in it’s own right, I cannot possibly accept this movie as canon between the end of Kid Buu, and the beginning of 28th world martial arts tournament. I have many claims as to why this is not canon. While many of these can be seen as extreme nitpicking, but any major fan of the Dragonball franchise would notice these points, and question it. Just because Toriyama helped write this, does NOT make it canon in my own opinion. But first, allow me to complement the character of Bills and Wiss. Both of these characters are hilarious. Bills, being the god of destruction, has a very child-like aspect to him. He alone is the reason to see this movie. He is curious of all of the things Earth has to offer. He enjoys exploring new food, and new things. Wiss on the other hand, watches Bills as he sleeps. He is like Bills, except more classy about how he goes about everything. Now, point out many of the inconsistencies I saw with this movie. I will be splitting the series into four major arcs, Saiyan Arc, Freeza Arc, Cell Arc, and Buu Arc. I am doing this to allow for easier understanding of my complaints. -Freeza is a major point to Bills. Why this is, I have no idea. This however, is minor, and they explain it as well. Bills sleeps for many years at a time, and most recently woke up after 39 years. Within these 39 years, Freeza must have been the most powerful creature in the universe, until Goku defeated him and Trunks killed him. -Vegeta in Saiyan armor. It is implied that after the Cell arc of the series, Vegeta gave up wearing Saiyan armor, and no longer wears his saiyan armor. This does include while he is training, as seen in both the manga and the series. This an extremely MINOR complaint, since Bulma asks why Vegeta is still in his "training" armor when he is training. So it is assumed that Vegeta still uses armor when he is training. -Trunks, Goten, Marron, and Gohan, show no sign of aging. This is a major point as to why I cannot accept this as canon to the series. Maron, appears to still be the same age as she was at the end of Dragon Ball Z. This contradicts the fact that Videl is pregnant with Pan at this point. Pan is three or four years old (Depending) during the 28th martial arts tournament. Maron, during the ending portion of Dragon Ball Z, is shown to be MUCH older (12 - 14 years old). Now for Gohan, Goten, and Trunks, it gets a bit more confusing. All three of these characters, are half blooded saiyans. The argument can be said that Saiyans retaint their youth longer than humans to continue fighting. However, Gohan is seen aging normally until he turned 17 or 18. Now the argument can be made that, Saiyans age like humans until they reach adulthood. While this argument is fine in the case of Gohan, why is it that Trunks and Goten are not aging at all. You can say that this is some kind of recessive vs dominate gene debate, and it's still extremely confusing as to why this would possibly make sense. Either way though, Goten and Trunks both, should have aged a bit during this period. Going back to Videl being pregnant with Pan, this would place this movie taking place at least 4 to 5 years before the beginning of the 28th martial arts tournament, depending on what time table you are following. Assuming that humans go through the natural pregnancy cycle in Dragonball Z, she is somewhere between 0 - 4 months as she has no sign of being pregnant at all. I am going to go back to the 25th martial arts tournament to obtain some ages. During this tournament, Trunks is eight years old, and Goten is seven. Add ten years to this age, and they would be eighteen and seventeen respectively. If Pan is three years old, then Battle of the Gods would take place when Goten and Trunks are Fourteen and Fifteen. Adding a year or two depending on what age Pan is. I'd like to assume that Goten and Trunks would have, at the very least, gotten taller, and Goten's hairstyle would change somewhat to the one seen at the end of Dragonball Z. -Bulla/Bra is NOT SEEN AT ALL. This is tied to Videl's pregnancy. Pan is clearly younger than Bulla at the end of Dragonball Z. If, Pan is conceived, then Bulla must be born. Bulma is NOT pregnant during this movie. If Pan is, at all, conceived inside of Videl's womb, Bulla must either be about to be born or is born already. Another idea is that Pan is older than Bulla. While it may be true, Bulma should be pregnant at the very least to even begin to make sense with the end of Dragon Ball Z. Bulla's age however, is subject to debate, since they have no "official" birthdate. -Hercule does NOT KNOW who Dende is. This is another minor reason. Hercule traveled with Dende when he was on Earth before Kid Buu destroyed Earth. He should know who Dende is. -SSJ Mystic Gohan This is neither confirmed, nor denied that Gohan can transform into a Super Saiyan while being "Mystic". It has spawned thousands of debated between fans as to whether or not he can or cannot transform into a Super Saiyan while also being "mystic". Please DO NOT take this as I hated Battle of the Gods. As I really enjoyed to movie for what it was. I just refuse to accept it as canon, and I refuse to accept the placement of it in the series. Many people will debate me on this topic, and that is absolutely fine. Some may even point out other inconsistencies with the series and use that as some kind of “ammo” to make these points invalid. Some will quote that Toriyama said it was a part of official history of Dragon Ball. To that I say this, the video games, GT, figures, and movies, are a part of official Dragon Ball history. While I feel GT is also not canon to the series or manga, I feel more like Battle of the Gods is the GT to the movies. But to each their own. I may be posting this on many other forums as well, to get some kind of discussion. So if you see it, somewhere else, it is probably me. Edited by FourSeven, Mar 31 2014, 11:37 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 1 2014, 05:17 AM Post #2 |
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Yeah I'm pretty disappointed about goten and trunks not looking older too. It actually looks like they're younger lol
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 1 2014, 05:37 AM.
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Apr 1 2014, 06:16 PM Post #3 |
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魔王子
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The only points you have going in your favor are Mr. Satan not recognizing Dende, which is explained by the fact that he's clearly hammered, and the kids showing no signs of age. Other that, I say do your research, Pan is older than Bra for example. |
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| + Kaboom | Apr 1 2014, 06:37 PM Post #4 |
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His name is "Beerus" or "Beers," not "Bills," and his attendant-slash-teacher is "Whis." Watanabe and Toriyama derived their names from the English words "virus," "beer," and "whiskey." Also, there's no need to censor ourselves for prudish North American network TV. You can call them "Bra" and "Mr. Satan," because those are their names.
I don't understand what problem you're trying to express here.
Why would you consider this an inconsistency? The Saiyan armor is Vegeta's standard look, just like the orange gi is for Goku. The only reason Vegeta wasn't wearing it during the Boo arc is because armor isn't allowed in the World Tournament, and Vegeta never had the time or opportunity to change between competing and... well, dying.
For one, your years are a bit off. Battle of Gods (Age 778) only takes place about 4 years after Boo's defeat (Age 774), not five. Then Pan would be born sometime midway through the next year (Age 779), and she'd be 4 years old but almost 5 by the time of the 28th World Tournament at the end of the manga (Age 784). So Goten and Trunks are more like 12 and 13 in the new movie, not 14 and 15. We've had Saiyan aging explained to us by Toriyama recently, via Jaco. Saiyans apparently have a long childhood in order to deceive their enemies, then they rapidly mature into adulthood sometime during their mid-teen years. We saw this with Goku, where he was still pretty shrimpy even at 15 years old, when he defeated King Piccolo. Evidently Goten and Trunks take after him and are aging the same way, and they'll each hit their massive growth spurts in the next few years and be adult-sized by the time of the end of the manga in another five years or so. If anything, Gohan is the odd one out, since he grew a little more steadily over the few years of the Saiyan through Cell arcs. As for Marron, who's much younger than Goten and Trunks and is only like 7 or 8 in Battle of Gods... well, we can probably just say she takes after her daddy in terms of stature.
Bra is not older than Pan. Only one source (a guidebook timeline or something) ever listed Bra as being born first, while everything else said otherwise, and apparently Battle of Gods is just putting the hammer down and declaring Pan as the older one, once and for all.
Admittedly a very tiny bit of an issue... but Mr. Satan spends most of the movie drunk off his gourd, especially even more so in the new extended version. It'd be easy to use that to dismiss his confusion.
We never actually had the relationship between Gohan's 'Ultimate' and Super Saiyan states explained to us, or told that the latter disappeared once the former was obtained. So while this one is confusing, it's not actually a plot hole or anything. This is a moderately educational podcast episode on the topic: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/12/24/podcast-episode-0319/ Edited by Kaboom, Oct 12 2014, 10:13 PM.
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| Deleted User | Apr 1 2014, 06:56 PM Post #5 |
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Deleted User
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My extremely unlikely theory: Goten & Trunks started drinking coffee, which stunted their growth. Despite BoG's apparent plotholes, I still consider it canon. Simply because it was written by the big man himself and confirmed officially to be a bridge between manga chapters. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 1 2014, 06:56 PM Post #6 |
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Deleted User
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Edit: Internet issues again. Ignore the double post. |
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| + Yusuke | Apr 1 2014, 07:54 PM Post #7 |
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I guess BoG can fit in to canon seeing that Base Goku is around SSJ2-SSJ3 level at the EoZ because of him absorbing the SSJG power. For all we know, Vegeta could have gotten a similar boost as well explaining his strength as well. I just don't like Beeus very much for some reason. He has a case of Broly syndrome with a lot of people thinking he's stronger than Omega Sheron and stuff. Not to mention it was hard to take him seriously with all the gag scenes. |
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| Rogafufuken | Apr 1 2014, 10:49 PM Post #8 |
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I think that Kaboom explained most of it well, but I just want to elaborate on this part.
It never said in the manga that Gohan couldn't turn into any form of Super Saiyan after he reached his Mystic form. All that the manga had to offer or information about that, was just Old Kai saying that if Gohan went super saiyan after he obtained his Mystic form, that it would make him weaker, it never said anywhere in the manga that he couldn't go Super Saiyan. The reason he did go Super Saiyan though, was for the same reason that Hercule (@ThePrinceofSaiyajins, I say Hercule because I'm more used to it. I'll say Bra though) did not recognize Dende, because he drank too much Sake and got drunk. That is most likely the reason. Edited by Rogafufuken, Apr 1 2014, 10:52 PM.
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| FourSeven | Apr 1 2014, 11:56 PM Post #9 |
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The only points you have going in your favor are Mr. Satan not recognizing Dende, which is explained by the fact that he's clearly hammered, and the kids showing no signs of age. Other that, I say do your research, Pan is older than Bra for example. I've done plenty of research. I even said they have no official birth date for Bra. I clearly stated that, Pan could be older than Bra. "Another idea is that Pan is older than Bulla. While it may be true, Bulma should be pregnant at the very least to even begin to make sense with the end of Dragon Ball Z. Bulla's age however, is subject to debate, since they have no "official" birthdate." "His name is "Beerus" or "Beers," not "Bills," and his attendant-slash-teacher is "Whis." Watanabe and Toriyama derived their names from the English words "virus, "beer," and "whiskey." Also, there's no need to censor ourselves for prudish North American network TV. You can call them "Bra" and "Mr. Satan," because those are their names." I explain that the Freeza point is a nitpick, and I even explain why it makes some sense. And I am just going off of the sub I watched. They named Beerus Bills. So thats why I did that. Hercule/Mr. Satan, just found it easier to type "Herucle" than Mr. Satan. As that is what I am used to saying when talking about DBZ. Vegeta in Saiyan armor - Explained why it is a nitpick. And even stated how it was explained as to why he is in his armor. Goten, Gohan, and Trunks - long childhoods - This seems, to me, to be more of an excuse as to why they are still the same height. If they were pure blooded saiyans, then I'd buy it, but they aren't. They are 1/2 saiyan 1/2 human. Since Gohan is the first 1/2 saiyan I assume that he'd be the example of they aging for half saiyans. Marron, I refuse to buy at all. At the end of DBZ, we see she's much taller so her being that short is another excuse to me. As seen in GT, if you wish to use that as reference, she reaches 18's shoulder. At the end of DBZ, she's taller than Krillin. Slightly, but still taller. Gohan SSJ debate, a nitpick that has never been stated officially able to or not. It's up to personally opinions really. I personally am one who thinks he cannot transform into SSJ, but I am not opposed to it either. Ages being off - That's seems to be another excuse. Regardless of the ages, subtract or add to the ages. 4 years, but Videl is pregnant. 9 months (More like 0-4 months), and considering she shows no sign of pregnancy, it has to take place 5 years before, unless she got pregnant before hand. Did anyone read this topic? |
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