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How strong is Oob?
Topic Started: Mar 29 2014, 01:37 AM (2,061 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Father Brofist
Mar 29 2014, 03:57 PM
I'm pretty sure a good majority of the community actually believes the Base Saiyans>Freeza by the Boo Arc, much more so by the EOZ. But if you people want to ignore all the things about Kaioshin one shotting Freeza but not being able to defeat Goku or the fact that the hindered kids could give No. 18 a challenge and even has the Daiz indicating that they're close to her power.

Well you all believe what you wish.
And if you want to ignore the various counters to those arguments, be my guest ^_^ . Also, while it's not my place to mini-mod a mod, you should probably avoid flame baiting.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Mar 29 2014, 04:07 PM.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Personally I believe the base saiyans during buu saga are below frieza or at most getting close to him. During EOZ, goku, not any other base saiyan, is around buu saga ssj3 goku/kid buu. Not sure about BOG though. All I can say is that in pretty sure goku was suppressed when beerus was poking him

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I'm pretty sure a good majority of the community actually believes the Base Saiyans>Freeza by the Boo Arc, much more so by the EOZ. But if you people want to ignore all the things about Kaioshin one shotting Freeza but not being able to defeat Goku or the fact that the hindered kids could give No. 18 a challenge and even has the Daiz indicating that they're close to her power.

Well you all believe what you wish.

are you saying that supreme kai is only a little stronger than base goku during buu saga?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Mar 29 2014, 04:07 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

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Are you saying that supreme kai is only a little stronger than base goku during buu saga?


No he's actually weaker and I dare by a fair amount too. Kaioshin notes that he's eager to fight Goku in the tournament but doesn't expect to win. The encounter with Yakon and the gang as well as Goku and everyone's abilities basically freaking Kaioshin out is what puts him below the Base Saiyans.

I think the only reason Base Saiyans>Freeza was ever questioned was the simple fact that Beers started poking Goku.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Father Brofist
Mar 29 2014, 04:11 PM
Quote:
 
Are you saying that supreme kai is only a little stronger than base goku during buu saga?


No he's actually weaker and I dare by a fair amount too. Kaioshin notes that he's eager to fight Goku in the tournament but doesn't expect to win. The encounter with Yakon and the gang as well as Goku and everyone's abilities basically freaking Kaioshin out is what puts him below the Base Saiyans.

I think the only reason Base Saiyans>Freeza was ever questioned was the simple fact that Beers started poking Goku.
Well, you would be wrong. A good amount of people believed Goku was below Freeza prior to Battle of Gods simply because it isn't necessary to put him ahead of Freeza. Kaioshin knows about SSj for one thing. He also doesn't know about the deal the Saiyajins made about not going SSJ. Furthermore he doesn't seem to care since he wanted Gohan to turn into a SSJ. Furthermore, Babidi's minions cannot be sensed:
Quote:
 
Chapter: 441 (DBZ 247), P4.4
Context: as Videl fights Spopovitch
Goku: "Like I thought, that Spopovitch guy is weird...He seems too fine, despite the fact that he should have taken so much damage, and I can't sense any life from him..."
Note: 'life', in this case is seiki, written with the kanji for 'life' and 'ki'.

Also note that Kaioshin only expresses the fact that he's been surpassed once Yakon is destroyed:
Quote:
 
Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Context: after Goku kills Yakon
Kaioshin: "S-so that's why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily...Wh...what a completely unbelievable fact...that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world..."

Sorry, but the base Saiyajins being below Freeza is a completely viable option.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

I don't want to move this too far away from Oob right now (though it may end up getting to Oob eventually but for now I'm going make a new topic on this and we'll go from there.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Father Brofist
Mar 29 2014, 04:21 PM
I don't want to move this too far away from Oob right now (though it may end up getting to Oob eventually but for now I'm going make a new topic on this and we'll go from there.
I really don't think that's necessary. This debate has been done a thousand times over.
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GrooseStrikesBack
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In my years on Dragon Ball forums, be it Kanzenshuu, DBZF, Pojo, Neo and even Shinden, not once have I seen anybody believe that the Saiyans, in the Boo saga, are weaker than Freeza.

Kaio can one-shot Freeza, from what is stated. He wanted the gang to fight Pocus together, so Pocus must be close to Kaio in power, perhaps even surpassing him. Vegeta beat the holy hell out of him, so, say, Pocus > Kaio.

Now, Vegeta made Pocus his b***.

Vegeta > Pocus > Kaio.

Kaio can one-shot Freeza.

Vegeta > Pocus > Kaio >>> Freeza.

According to Vegeta, Goku & Vegeta > Gohan in Babidi's ship.

Goku > Vegeta > Gohan (Cell) > Gohan (Boo) > Pocus > Kaio >>> Freeza.

Not to mention that BoG Goku can go SSJ3, and has mastered his power and abilities.

Now, to tell me that you seriously believe Freeza > Boo Saga Goku, I will look at you with a hint of insanity.
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+ Yusuke
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I'm going to play the Devils Advocate here.

Goku being weaker than 100% Frieza in BoG but still being around Good Buu/Kid Buu level at EoZ can still make sense when you think about it. Maybe Goku didn't bother training that much in the first 5 years in the 10 year gap because he knew he wouldn't have to face Uub for a long time so he only trained enough to retain his Buu Saga strength. Then after BoG, Goku decides to train a lot for the upcoming Budokai Tenkaichi making large inceases in this time period not to mention absorbing SSJG thus making it to SSJ2/SSJ3 level in Base. Maybe even Vegeta made some large gains after BoG as well seeing as he's never too far behind Goku.

Of course that's just a theory I came up with recently. Somene just needs to ask Toriyama straight up if Base Saiyans are stronger than Frieza or vice-versa. That way this debate can finally come to a closure lol.
Edited by Yusuke, Mar 29 2014, 04:32 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

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Quote:
 
Somene just needs to ask Toriyama straight up if Base Saiyans are stronger than Frieza or vice-versa. That way this debate can finally come to a closure lol.


Fan: Toriayama sensei, during the Boo Arc are the Base Saiyans stronger than Freeza?

Toriayam: Who's Freeza? Must have been a minor character.
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+ Pyrus
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He'd probably wonder what a "Base Saiyan" is.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Father Brofist
Mar 29 2014, 04:11 PM
Quote:
 
Are you saying that supreme kai is only a little stronger than base goku during buu saga?


No he's actually weaker and I dare by a fair amount too. Kaioshin notes that he's eager to fight Goku in the tournament but doesn't expect to win. The encounter with Yakon and the gang as well as Goku and everyone's abilities basically freaking Kaioshin out is what puts him below the Base Saiyans.

I think the only reason Base Saiyans>Freeza was ever questioned was the simple fact that Beers started poking Goku.
Can you show me supreme kai saying he wants to fight goku and doesn't expect to win? He knows about them being able to go super saiyan so he's probably taking that into account
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

He says it at the Budokai. He meets Goku and greets him all with his cunning perverted smile going on about how he hopes to be able to fight Goku in the tournament but doesn't expect to win. I could get the exact quite if you need me to unless someone else can get it.
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+ Pyrus
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He knew about Super Saiyan so I wouldn't count Base Goku in that statement.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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@brofistYeah but like princeofallsaiyans said, he doesn't know about the agreement that they had about not turning ssj. He knew about ssj so he's still taking into account
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Mar 29 2014, 05:48 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

A fair enough point as well I suppose.
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