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How strong is Pan?
Topic Started: Mar 23 2014, 11:08 PM (5,509 Views)
+ Yusuke
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Emmeth
Mar 24 2014, 11:07 PM
Yusuke Urameshi
Mar 24 2014, 11:04 PM
And what reason would that be? His attacks were clearly not doing anything to him.

Because that's what you listed him as

BA SSJ4 Goku and Pan: 10
Naturon: 4
SD SSJ Goku: 15


Goku let Naturon believe he was winning so he'd do something stupid. Turns out, he did do something stupid (let Pan out of his stomach a little to tease Goku)

Lol, I meant SSJ4 :p
Show me a quote that proves this.

And just how the hell does SSJ4 Goku only get 1.5X stronger? Goku's Base in the S17 arc was enough to make Frieza and Cell look lke fools (mind you their stronger than Rild here who in turn wasn't far behind Bebi Saga Base Goku). And how does Pan make godlike jumps in these arcs when Goku makes a piss poor 1.5X jump? Somethings not adding up. Lets just face it, the additional method doesn't work here. Only the multiplicative method sounds reasonable.

@lazerbeam

And he hardly had any damage aftwrwards. So what?
Edited by Yusuke, Mar 25 2014, 12:58 AM.
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Yusuke Urameshi
Mar 25 2014, 12:57 AM
Show me a quote that proves this.
Episode Synopsis
 
Thinking that he has won, Naturon taunts Goku by partially releasing Pan from his stomach. The young girl tries to convince her grandfather to fight, but her pleas are seemingly in vain. Tiring of his game, Naturon begins to reabsorb Pan, stating another Shenron quote ("Your wish... has been granted") in the process. Suddenly, Goku wakes up, grabbing Pan and pulling her out of Naturon. At this point, Goku reveals that he deliberately held back with the Kamehameha blast and allowed Naturon to beat him up to make the dragon confident enough to taunt him by partially releasing Pan, giving Goku the opportune moment to remove his granddaughter from the demonic Dragon's body.



4, 10 and 15 are examples. Enough tweaking and you'll find a number that fits.
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Rogafufuken
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EOZ: Stronger than base Goten, a little weaker than base Trunks. Goten was always a little weaker than Trunks, plus I doubt Vegeta would allow Trunks to do much slacking, so he's stronger than Goten, and a little less stonger than Pan at base.

All of GT: Anywhere from Base Goku to Majuub. It's insane and against all logic IMO to put her in a SSJ4 tier when she's not even a Super Saiyan.

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But how does Pan make godlike gains when Goku's gains are piss poor? Obviously your tweaking all of this to make Pan stronger than she needs to be because you know it's impossible to make your additional theory work. Just admit that the boost is multiplicative. You and the rest of the Pan is SSJ4 tier club are sounding so desperate to make BS up that supports your nonsense. I'm really getting ticked off by this ignorance.

@Rogafufuken

I've been trying to yell this out for the past 5 pages or so but ignorance is prevailing here as you can see.
Edited by Yusuke, Mar 25 2014, 02:34 AM.
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SSJ
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Calm down.
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I'm sorry SSJ2 but i'm not seeing any worthwhile evidence here. I'm just going to stop posting on this thread because I made my point over 9000 times and obviously the longer I stay here the more excuses the ofher side is going to make so theres no point in continuing this.

/thread
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SSJ
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If you don't feel like repeating yourself then just back out. There isn't a need to get aggressive with people.
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Rogafufuken
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You guys on the Pan is SSJ4 tier side, you do realize that it would mean that if she was able to hit at least Super Saiyan 2 or 3, she would be one of the most powerful characters in all of fiction, besides reality warpers? I mean really, is Pan that strong? No, it's just against all logic in all of Dragon Ball
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Rogafufuken
Mar 25 2014, 03:38 AM
You guys on the Pan is SSJ4 tier side, you do realize that it would mean that if she was able to hit at least Super Saiyan 2 or 3, she would be one of the most powerful characters in all of fiction, besides reality warpers? I mean really, is Pan that strong? No, it's just against all logic in all of Dragon Ball
Nah, the SSJ multipliers in gt were poop
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Kingsley
Mar 25 2014, 03:40 AM
Rogafufuken
Mar 25 2014, 03:38 AM
You guys on the Pan is SSJ4 tier side, you do realize that it would mean that if she was able to hit at least Super Saiyan 2 or 3, she would be one of the most powerful characters in all of fiction, besides reality warpers? I mean really, is Pan that strong? No, it's just against all logic in all of Dragon Ball
Nah, the SSJ multipliers in gt were poop
How so? I don't really know much about that.
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For this hoopla about it being insane for her to be so strong and not even be a Super Saiyan, take a good gander:
GT Perfect Files Vol.1
 
Will new Super Saiyans emerge?
Pan has inherited Saiyan blood and posses high battle power!! If the conditions introduced on the right-hand page [see above] are met, Pan and even Vegeta’s daughter Bra should be able to transform into Super Saiyans!! When the evilest of dangers arrives, perhaps the first female Super Saiyans in history will appear!?

The conditions brought up were:
-intense anger or sorrow
-high battle power
-a gentle heart
-a dangerous situation

She must've been weaker than Base Goku on Namek, right, but then that wouldn't explain how her rage-induced power was enough to topple General Rild momentarily. Something must be missing, and we know it isn't power just by that simple feat.

In Episode 49, Pan was beating the absolute crap out of Liang Xing Long (Haze). Obviously after her power dropped due to his poison mist, he took the upper hand and even Goku felt it necessary to turn Super Saiyan when she was in trouble, though he couldn't anymore. Of course, he was stated to be the weakest Evil Dragon, so this doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme.

She didn't do anything in Episode 50 against Wu Xing Long (Rage). Goku did all of the work and killed that motherf***er.

Episode 51 against Lui Xing Long (Oceanus) is where Pan actually did something notable. I'm not quite sure how you perceived that Base Goku did all of the damage before Pan stepped in, or that he cracked the Dragon Ball when it was cracked to begin with. Aside from when Goku initially revealed he could imitate the spinning technique and bashed into Lui, he and Lui clashed a total of four times during their spinning contest, and those weren't even traditional clashes like punching and kicking. Neither of them had been stated or shown to have taken damage from those collisions -- Lui was perfectly fine afterward. Pan's Kamehameha was eradicating Lui and Goku sped up the process with his own, but it was still Pan who was delivering the initial finishing blow to a basically unharmed Lui Xing Long. Admittedly, I'll hand this bit to you, that Goku said it'd be a "piece of cake" if he could fight back from Lui's extreme spinning ability, so take that as you will.

Quote:
 
Oh that's just the tip of the iceberg my friend. Vegeta VS Initial Perfect Cell, Vegito VS Buuhan, Gotenks VS Buu and other times. Which fight are you even talking about here?

Episode 52, the one where Pan mocked Qi Xing Long's (Naturon) "ultimate finishing move" where he shot Kiko-Ha blasts from underground. She and Goku were laughing the attacks off and a point-blank one was easily dodged. Qi was complimented by SSjin 4 Goku earlier on for still standing after taking so many hits from him. The point of this is that the guys you're bringing up were contradicted in their boasting ways, but Pan wasn't, so what would there be to deny her statement aside from your own belief that it shouldn't be so?

I didn't review Qi's absorption of her yet so I ain't touching your belief on it.

Quote:
 
Yeah but going by your logic, Pan > Uub correct? It would make much more sense for her to do something (given that Uub has at least tried fighting Syn/Omega in the past) given that she's the great almighty SSJ4 tier fighter.

I'm not saying that's how powerful she is.

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Edited by Pyrus, Mar 25 2014, 10:15 AM.
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Yusuke Urameshi
Mar 25 2014, 02:31 AM
But how does Pan make godlike gains when Goku's gains are piss poor? Obviously your tweaking all of this to make Pan stronger than she needs to be because you know it's impossible to make your additional theory work. Just admit that the boost is multiplicative. You and the rest of the Pan is SSJ4 tier club are sounding so desperate to make BS up that supports your nonsense. I'm really getting ticked off by this ignorance.
I could say the same thing about your efforts to prove otherwise. I have yet to see any evidence from you making Pan weaker than we are claiming.
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Rogafufuken
Mar 25 2014, 03:38 AM
You guys on the Pan is SSJ4 tier side, you do realize that it would mean that if she was able to hit at least Super Saiyan 2 or 3, she would be one of the most powerful characters in all of fiction, besides reality warpers? I mean really, is Pan that strong? No, it's just against all logic in all of Dragon Ball
There's a theory that Pan inherited Gohan's Mystic Form and she doesn't need SSJ.

Be that as it may, she's still not that powerful in the grand scheme of things. The Ancients, Jawzahr, Galactus, Anti-Spiral, and tons of others would still put her to shame, even if she did go SSJ.

BTW, how is against DB logic? That it's an insane power boost? We've totally never seen that before <_<
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So this is that thread huh?

I lost a lot of knowledge towards DBZ when I was sus, but I'd say that Pan would be at least as strong as Super Boo in GT. Since everybody in GT seems to be overpowered.
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Rogafufuken
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lazerbem
Mar 25 2014, 02:15 PM
Rogafufuken
Mar 25 2014, 03:38 AM
You guys on the Pan is SSJ4 tier side, you do realize that it would mean that if she was able to hit at least Super Saiyan 2 or 3, she would be one of the most powerful characters in all of fiction, besides reality warpers? I mean really, is Pan that strong? No, it's just against all logic in all of Dragon Ball
There's a theory that Pan inherited Gohan's Mystic Form and she doesn't need SSJ.

Be that as it may, she's still not that powerful in the grand scheme of things. The Ancients, Jawzahr, Galactus, Anti-Spiral, and tons of others would still put her to shame, even if she did go SSJ.

BTW, how is against DB logic? That it's an insane power boost? We've totally never seen that before <_<
1. Just a theory, it hasn't been confirmed, so it is invalid in this debate.

2. I said one of the strongest characters in all of fiction besides reality warpers, if what people on the Pan is SSJ4 tier side were right. I also said that she wouldn't get to that if you were right unless she was SSJ2 or SSJ3 at least.

3. I meant against DB logic as in a base saiyan (not including Mystic form) being stronger than any form of Super Saiyan, especially at Super Saiyan 4 of all all things. It doesn't make any sense at all.
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