- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- The Lounge
- →
- Deep Discussion
- →
- Veganism vs "Meat Eaters"
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Veganism vs "Meat Eaters" | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 21 2014, 08:37 PM (907 Views) | |
| * Ketchup Revenge | Mar 21 2014, 08:37 PM Post #1 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
|
Veganism is a practice that cuts all animal products out of a diet. This includes milk and eggs. Most Vegans do it to protest the meat industry. Most Vegans call people who don't conform to their beliefs as "meat eaters", which I find slightly insulting to be completely honest. What are your views on this lifestyle? For me, I don't have a problem with Veganism, but to promote veganism as a lifestyle for all kinds of raised meat is misguided. If you own a few chickens in your back yard, you're raising them for yourself, and not making money off of them, than the whole vegan argument against the meat industry falls apart. A chicken being raised in your back yard is going to lay an egg whether or not you're there to eat it. You're not hurting the chicken by eating that egg. In fact, you're helping that chicken survive by not allowing that egg to attract predators and kill the population. In some more rare cases, the chickens will cannibalize if the eggs are left unattended, break, and the chickens begin eating them. That puts the whole population at risk. By housing these animals, you're providing these animals a means of survival by supplying them with food and shelter. It's the same with hunting. Without hunting bears (for example), their population grows out of control and soon you have them breaking into your house and ravaging your refrigerator, endangering your family and pets. Like deer, they destroy corn crops by consuming them, which is the literal backbone of this country's food and fuel (ethanol comes from corn). Without hunting deer, they eat the vegetables in your garden and destroy corn crops, that you'd use for your vegan diets. These animals also run the risk of potentially being dangerous for drivers on the roads. With more animals in the environment, more cross roads and get hit by cars. Hitting a bear or deer can potentially be fatal to drivers on the roads. Plenty of people are killed by moose every year simply from people hitting them. Their legs are too long, so their legs break when a car hits them, and an 800 lb moose comes crashing through your windshield. 800 lbs of moose crashing through your windshield and hitting you in the chest at 35 miles per hour kills people. In fact, there's basically nothing to bury at that point in time. Rural areas with high beaver populations often have water problems, because beavers often carry parasites that poison water supplies for both humans and other animals, and their dams and constant activity in an area destroys rivers and entire ecosystems. I've walked into areas with beavers where all the trees were dead, and no other animals could live in those areas because beavers just destroy the environment in that area. Wild hogs will move into an area and destroy everything, including crops used for vegan diets. They're also incredibly aggressive, and will kill your pets and even people. It's ignorance to believe that animal populations can't be considered pests, and don't infringe on "animal friendly" resources that humans use, and it's also ignorance to believe that all commercial meat or animal products are produced inhumanely, and that all are produced through the meat industry. And relocation isn't an option for these animals because that runs the risk of these animals becoming an invasive species. Not all meat is produced via the Meat Industry, and this is the side that the Vegan argument often ignores or simply doesn't see. So the main problem that I have with veganism is that it persecutes all meat eating, indiscriminately, without looking at the facts of why certain animals are being killed. Responsible hunters hunt to control populations of animals that could potentially become pests or dangers to humans if their populations become to large. And by consuming the animals that they kill, they're not wasting the resource that this animal could provide. This isn't evil as most vegans seem to believe, it's humanly responsible, considering that many of these animals killed could be pests to other animal populations as well as humans. However, I will agree that not all hunters think this way, but to simply group the meat industry, hunters, and "meat eaters" together is wrong. |
 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
 |
 
|
| + Pelador | Mar 21 2014, 09:08 PM Post #2 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
|
I've seen how livestock is slaughtered, how animals are skinned alive for their fur, how so called free range hens are left in squalid conditions with no room to move with all the other chickens but because they aren't caged, they are free ranged. I've also seen the quality of the meat that goes into pasties, burgers and pies. It's awful. I wish liked enough vegetables that I could maintain a healthy vegetarian lifestyle because the quality of the meat in mass produced products is just disgraceful. Especially Ginsters, they can go eat a big fat d***. I'm not opposed to conservation by hunting. It's a useful way of keeping things in order. It's just meat and fur products I take issue with. |
 http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits | |
|
|
|
| + Steve | Mar 21 2014, 09:50 PM Post #3 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
|
The problem there is demand there's just not enough space to give livestock adequate room with all the food we consume every single day, if the human population is half of what it is now this would be a lot less of a problem. But to stop housing the animals like this would be inhumane in that you're depriving humans of food. This is why I don't see the problem with water being injected in to meats to make them more meaty, it's that or just kill more animals. We just shouldn't be lied to about it being 100% meat and it shouldn't be as expensive. Not like just water is going to make it unhealthy. No problem with vegetarian or veganism in general it's the people that are the problem, not all of course but a large amount act like they're part of some superior race and that us meat eaters are evil murderers because eating meat is unnatural since we're not animals. Except that we are, I think it's been proven that we're mostly carnivorous too the body digests meat way easier than it does vegetables, fruits and crops. There's nothing wrong with it as a life choice but you can't impose it on people or act like it gives you some higher purpose, is a cheetah evil because it kills other animals for food? No, because it's natural. The conditions in which we get our meat are not natural, which is regrettable. I don't like to kill animals but I'd love to have to hunt for my meat. It's just not a viable option with so many people, 7 billion humans on the prowl with guns hunting down everything would destroy animal populations where outside of farms they largely get left alone to maintain their own ecosystem. We can take a few animals from an ecosystem and add it to our own in such a way that we don't often need to venture in to wild territory for more, that's a good thing. Nobody has to like that animals need to be killed for food but it's survival and it has to be done crops etc aren't viable as a primary food source farms can be destroyed by the weather or insects, what then? In that world people have nothing to turn to but meat. I'd admire the willpower of any vegan or vegetarian that chose to starve instead of eat meat but I doubt it's happened more than a couple of times in all human history. Animals need to be killed or else they overpopulate without a predatory force around. Which is exactly why we're so overpopulated as we have no natural predators, we're the perfect example of why an ecosystem needs a continuous cycle of killing and reproducing. |
 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
|
|
|
| * Ketchup Revenge | Mar 21 2014, 10:44 PM Post #4 |
|
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
|
I agree with this. I grew up hunting for the sake of population control and food for my family, and it p*sses me off when Vegans and Animal Rights Activists refuse to see why populations of certain animals need to be controlled. Without population control of certain invasive animals, you wouldn't even be able to live a Veganistic life. The animals being controlled through hunting would eat all your crops, and destroy the land where your crops are grown.
This is 100% true. I grew up in an area that outlawed Beaver Trapping like 20 years ago because of the push from animal rights activists. After 10 years, the beaver population was so out of control that they were destroying waterways and certain ecosystems. They move into an area, destroy the trees in the area, spread parasites to the water making it undrinkable, and block up waterways with their dams. Beavers in numbers are nothing more than a pest animal. Anyone that tells you any different is lying through their teeth. After about 10 years, the beaver population had gotten so much out of control that it damage caused from beavers was costing the state huge amounts of money. They actually slashed the law and asked the beaver trappers to come back, but some of the beaver trappers were like "No", because they'd fought to keep their trapping rights when the law was passed originally, but lost due to animal rights activists. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Mar 21 2014, 10:45 PM.
|
|
The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
|
|
|
| + Steve | Mar 22 2014, 12:09 AM Post #5 |
|
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
|
I'm not sure vegans would appreciate there being millions of wolves, bears, cougars and whatever else roaming around outside their town ready to kill them because hunting them is outlawed. Their prey would overpopulate, then they would and sooner or later they'd all spread out, especially wolves and due to no hunting they'd not know to fear humans, plenty animals already don't. And then also other uncontrolled animals eating all their food, what would a vegan do if a herd of buffalo set up shop in their fields? It would be an awful existence. |
|
Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
|
|
|
| FreezaTheTyrant | Mar 22 2014, 12:19 AM Post #6 |
 
|
I can't imagine not eating meat. I'm a meat eater for life 
|
 I shall make you suffer a fate worse than death! You can't win! | |
|
|
|
| * Ketchup Revenge | Mar 22 2014, 01:48 AM Post #7 |
|
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
|
Something very interesting I just staggered across moments ago. This is an interesting video about if the entire US population went Vegetarian: Click I agree. Veganism seems to only be feasible in idealistic conditions. And not only that, but many people in the US (for example) live in regions where being Vegan is not practical because those crops can't be grown year round. I live in one of those regions. I can't imagine many Vegans living in Alaska or Maine simply because the practicality of being Vegan there borders on insanity, but plenty of Vegans probably live in Florida and California where crops can be grown year 'round, and because of this, they're affordable year 'round. The region I live in, in the winter time, (pound for pound) veggies are the same price as meat, if not more expensive. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Mar 22 2014, 02:01 AM.
|
|
The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
|
|
|
| SaiyanHajime | Mar 31 2014, 01:41 PM Post #8 |
|
I have issues with vegetarianism on moral grounds, because it's so full of holes. Not wanting to cause suffering to other living things is all well and good, but being a vegetarian doesn't do that. If anything, you could argue it just causes wasteful damage.... what do you think happens to calves born of male dairy cows? They get shot at birth. Wasted. Veganism makes slightly more sense, but it's also extreme in that it is going to ill effect one's health. I'd argue that vegetarianism does too, but if you're literally getting all your protein from non-animal products, you're also loading your body up with a tonne of man made meat substitutes like Quarn and evils like soy, that act as estrogen in the body. Personally, I think such an unnatural diet so low in protein and animal fats cannot be good. It just makes no sense to me? All this said, I cannot make a strong counter argument against the moral basis of not harming other life, because there isn't one. I just have to selfishly admit that my pleasure and health overrides that of a cows, and whilst that's probably a very natural thought process for any sentient species to have against another, one has to question whether it's actually important? I actually wonder if one day humanity will look back on eating meat like we do racism. |
|
Twitter | deviantArt | Tumblr | |
|
|
|
| Kienzan | Mar 31 2014, 07:27 PM Post #9 |
+
|
Meat tastes too good to pass up tho |
|
|
|
| + Green | Apr 1 2014, 02:25 AM Post #10 |
Flashy Thing!
|
Mr. Assassin, I feel you started this whole topic off with incorrect information. I feel that in your opening sentences you should have stated why Vegans don't eat meat. Veganism is a way of life, vegans are against moral issues in this world such as animal cruelty and they like to promote a healthier environment. In an effort to reduce animal cruelty and the damage done to the environment from from our mass consumption of non-human animals, Vegans do not consume animal based products, buy items that animals may have been used as test subjects for, or buy non-anime products that support animal products (fake leather). Yes, Vegans would prefer that people live a life in which they do not consume animal products but, as many of us are aware, that is not easy. Vegans themselves acknowledge that it is not possible to be a perfect vegan and they will slip up somewhere. The main goal is to reduce, even if you continue to eat and buy animal products, if you just reduce how often you do that, you'll be making an effort in the right direction. In such a case, I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a Vegan but, you will be supporting the same cause. People have more power than they realize, if a whole community only at meat 3 days a week, the meat industry will take a big hit. Hunting is a tricky subject. What right do we as humans have to say that a non-human animal's population is getting out of control when there are 7 billion of us killing this earth and everything on it? We kill animals, we rob them of a natural life, we even at times wipe them out of existence and to be angry about a non-human animal eating your corn seems a little extreme though this view point. You talk about roads - that's their home that we cut through. They're trying to go from the dinning room to their bedroom and you put a race car track in the middle. . .nothing good will come from that. The way you are approaching this makes it seem that you think non-human animals are getting in your way. We are quite the pest to them, we kill them, destroy their homes, and take their food for our own. We have to find a balance between this highly artificial life we are living and the non-human animals that we share this earth with. |
   Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister | |
|
|
|
| rusty_sim | Apr 2 2014, 07:58 AM Post #11 |
|
OP missed the point completely. You gave examples of hens laying eggs and hunting for conservation?? I'm bodybuilding atm so I eat alot of chicken, fish and redmeat. It's hard on my digestive system, liver and kidneys so I look forward to the day I can stop and alternate to egg white, pea protein etc. I also disagree with muslims and halal. |
 | |
|
|
|
| Rockman | Apr 2 2014, 11:09 AM Post #12 |
hoighty-toighty
|
That's a terrible argument. You can't imagine it unless you try it, and clearly you haven't tried it. |
 JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc. | |
|
|
| + Steve | Apr 2 2014, 11:18 AM Post #13 |
|
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
|
We don't have a right so much as we do a responsibility to limit animal populations. We are the natural predator of many animals without us they'd overpopulate and the world would be even more crowded, we're a fundamental part of the ecosystem just how lions, cheetas etc limit the population of wildebeest and whatever else so that they don't eat Africa or drink water holes dry. As I pointed out we have no natural predator we are the example of why populations need to be limited or they get out of control. It's why there's so much disease and things like that, nothing can kill us effectively so mother nature has to kill us at a cellular level, then of course we're overpopulating still because we're smart enough to cure things eventually. Before cures for cancer, AIDS etc we really should work on population control it's just really stupid, imagine every illness was curable? It would be madness. Until there's some mass extinction event the meat industry needs to stay as it is so we have enough food, it's cruel but there are generally enough of each animal type for us to eat. I doubt the human world would ever accept going without for the sake of animals. The meat industry needs to treat animals better and people need to stop being so wasteful not just stop eating meat altogether. The main thing we should do is reintroduce animals in to the wild, like horses, cows, sheep etc there are barely any wild ones in fact I think there's supposed to be no wild horses anymore, we should build up outside populations in case we end up eating them all because sadly it is a likely scenario. |
|
Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
|
|
|
| Rockman | Apr 2 2014, 09:17 PM Post #14 |
|
hoighty-toighty
|
That is what we should do. What is happening is the opposite. The meat industry is completely automating and industrializing itself to take the natural processes out completely. You have animals that don't even understand what fresh grass looks like, let alone sunshine. Just a month ago, I read a story about how there is no FDA regulation in America for companies and the way they process their meat. Chicken nuggets were their example in which, they slaughter and prepare the meat to be shipped to China, in which the meat is then processed and breaded to be sent back to America where it remains frozen and ready for consumption. The delay is somewhat >5 days in which anything could happened. I don't know about you, but I like knowing where my food comes from. And if the answer is anything other than "out of the ground" or "from an utter" then I don't like the idea of eating it. Can you blame me? Especially with stories like the one I just explained. With that being said, can you really blame animal rights activists? There is tons of evidence that shows that the way animals are being treated before being stuffed in your mouth is not only cruel, but crucial to our health as a society. Which in turn causes health problems, and down the slippery slope costs me money in insurance charges because you can't keep your fat a*** from eating chicken nuggets. Thus raising premiums for everyone in America because no one takes responsibility for their health anymore. I can't say the same for hunting for meat. I used to hunt, process, and cook my own meat for many years with my dad. I have no issues with this at all. It is the most natural, most time consuming, most costly, and most necessary form of stuffing meat in your mouth. But most people don't do that, much less claim to have a grinder or carving knives, or a place to hunt. Much less a gun, "silly brits". And the other problem I see with the meat industry, is the amount of pollution it causes. It takes way more energy and pollution to produce meat than it does vegetables for consumption. http://www.unep.org/pdf/unep-geas_oct_2012.pdf Not only that, but when you have animals there is biological run-off not only from killing it, but keeping it in a stable. Where does that go? Into the water supply which then is absorbed by plants. Plants in which you sometimes eat. Thus where E-Coli outbreaks come from, and god only knows what else. You're not only destroying the Earth, but also making it impossible for vegetarians to eat safe food products. So thanks for that. Edited by Rockman, Apr 2 2014, 09:22 PM.
|
|
JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc. | |
|
|
|
| * Ketchup Revenge | Apr 4 2014, 03:37 PM Post #15 |
|
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
|
I did, in the very first sentence of the OP. I stated that they had issues with the meat industry, which is quite a moral issue.
I won't fully disagree with you Agent G. from a moral standpoint, but you're missing the fact that Rats, cockroaches, Seagulls, pigeons, bears, deer, cats, and mice (amongst many other animals) wouldn't exist in nearly the numbers that they do today if it hadn't been for human activity. Most omnivorous animals get a good percentage of their diet from human-made dumps, landfills, and human planted crops. This abundance of food allows their population to explode because more survive, therefore more are able to reproduce, and after reproducing, more of their offspring are able to survive because they don't succumb to starvation. As an example, bears and deer have large populations in the US because they feed on crops that humans have planted, most specifically corn crops. Same with hogs, in which their population has cost millions of dollars of land damage down in the southern regions of the US. It wouldn't cost nearly as much if there weren't as many hogs, and if there wasn't as much food for them. So to suggest that humans have nothing to do with current populations of animals is completely misguided, and is often the side of the argument that most vegans or animal rights activists don't think about. A lot of species of animals already exist in unnatural population numbers because of human activity. |
|
The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
|
|
|
| 0 users reading this topic | |
 |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Deep Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:42 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy