Kibito Kai vs SSJ2 Gohan (Movie 10)

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Kibito Kai vs SSJ2 Gohan (Movie 10)
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 15 2014, 05:22 PM (5,093 Views)
+ Yusuke	Mar 17 2014, 02:13 AM Post #46
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Gohan Boo Mar 17 2014, 01:39 AM -Fair enough -If you think that, then Hercule is SSJ tier, since he survived a hit from Pure Boo. -How does that debunk my argument?Yes, he did compare him to Cell.That's all there is to it.You added up the ''Cell he fought'' part, when there is none. -Vegeta doesn't have lightning after he KO's Goku.Regardless, just because his aura lacks sparks, doesn't mean he wasn't SSJ2.Vegetto has sparks as a Super Saiyan, Nappa has sparks, Cell has sparks, the latter two obviously not being SSJ2s. Toriyama goes out of his way to have Goku say to Gohan ''Get angry like against Cell'', instead of ''Go SSJ2 like you did one hour ago''.Manga matters more than Daizenshuu, yes, but writing matters more than artwork. -He doesn't mean any amount of power Cell used against them, just the general range, since he is the last super villain they fought.Suppressed Cell level just happens to work, if you think Gohan was FPSSJ. -Fair enough, but why'd Toriyama have him beat up a weaker form of Gohan?Kind of ruins the hype. -That one is more of Toriyama/Watanabe forgetting Ultimate Gohan.I mean, Gotenks goes just SSJ after seeing Ultimate Gohan get beat up. While you are at it, BoG has Beerus state Base Goku is weaker than Freeza.And since Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza.... Daizenshuu doesn't contradict itself, it just doesn't include the Budokai part.It does that several times with many characters's forms. That's just another piece of evidence for your side. Looks like we will have to agree to disagree. - My point in all of that is durability does not correlate to strength. That's all I wanted to get at. - Because it shows that a Majin other than Vegeta was able to be sensed where as you argued that all the Majins other than Vegeta couldn't be sensed. - That's a whole diffrent beast all together. Nappa and Vegito having sparks was to show how powerful the two were. Cell having sparks was because his SP form was sort of SSJ2 like. And the Vegeta example was just a matter of inconsistency. It was for one panel before he went to having sparks again. - Well their you go! He just wants Gohan to get angry to win. As you mentioned in your post, he's not specifically asking for Gohan to go SSJ2 showing that it may not be needed. On top of all of that, it was shown in the Budokai that Gohan didn't need to be angry to be a SSJ2. Quote: Manga matters more than Daizenshuu, yes, but writing matters more than artwork. And clearly Toriyama is making an effort to show the readers what form the users are using by differentiating the two forms using the lightning effect. For Toriyama to forget using that effect for all 3 instances I provided in my previous post must mean either he's incompetent or he's trying to make a point. Obviously, the former is true here. - I'm just saying it would be more than likely that Goku would specifically mention the Cell he fought and not the one he just saw. - Put it this way. Gohan knows going SSJ2 won't work against Buu so he knows doing that would just waste more of his ki. Quote: -That one is more of Toriyama/Watanabe forgetting Ultimate Gohan.I mean, Gotenks goes just SSJ after seeing Ultimate Gohan get beat up. While you are at it, BoG has Beerus state Base Goku is weaker than Freeza.And since Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza.... - Okay, no offense or anything but that's a pretty big double standard right here. If your going to argue that Toriyama forgot about Gohan's form, i'm going to argue that Toriyama forgot about the Base Saiyans power placement. The difference between the two is that the statement Beers made about Goku isn't concrete as Goku is shown to be suppressed multiple times in the manga (when he fought Vegeta/Nappa and the Ginyu Force). Gohan on the other hand was shown to not use SSJ in his fight with Beers and use it only to help Goku achieve SSJG. I think the designers made a good effort to show why Gohan wouldn't use SSJ in the fight. Quote: I must disagree with you here. It's clear by the fact that they're judging him by his movements that they can't sense his power. Well that's still sort of a way to detect one's power right? Edited by Yusuke, Mar 17 2014, 03:24 AM.
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+ Pyrus	Mar 17 2014, 02:27 AM Post #47
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Ja, they're gauging someone's power by the way they move similar to what Vegeta did with the androids, but it's not like they're sensing that person's ki like they normally would. That's all I'm saying. Edited by Pyrus, Mar 17 2014, 02:27 AM.
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+ Yusuke	Mar 17 2014, 02:31 AM Post #48
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	I guess you do have a point. But then again, Dabura didn't really do anything major for Goku to make that assumption right? Sure, he turned Piccolo and Krillin to stone but that's about it before he fought Gohan. Though i'm pretty sure Vegeta berates Dabura at one point in the manga. That might be because of his movements as well I guess.
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+ Pyrus	Mar 17 2014, 02:35 AM Post #49
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	They only had Dabura's assault outside the ship to judge his power on, and Goku did mention in the ship that there was the possibility that that wasn't him going full-out, so he was leaving room for error.
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+ Emmeth	Mar 17 2014, 03:37 AM Post #50
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6 Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone… This quote pretty much says Gohan wasn't SSjin2.
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Gohan Boo	Mar 17 2014, 05:27 AM Post #51
Posts: 294 Group: Member Member #10,812 Joined: January 31, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	-Okay -Kamikaze Pyro pretty much said it for me -Who's to say, that the SSJ2s' lightning isn't there just to show, that they are strong?Gohan was portrayed as trash at that point, so he would lack the sparks. -May not be needed?They knew Boo was gonna be stronger than even Dabra, so why would he say that, if he wanted him to use SSJ2 to beat Dabra? Even more so, If he doesn't need anger to go SSJ2, why would he hold back on Dabra and not go SSJ2?Kinda debunked yourself there. He is making a point.Displaying Gohan's lack of power. -If he meant the one he fought he would specify that though. -True, hence the anger thing.Anger+SSJ2 together would be the best thing for him, like it was against Cell. I know, but it's also double standard for you too.Were that the case about Goku, then he'd said that.He always does or it's blatantly contradicted by his feats after that. Gohan in that fight is poorly recolored SSJ.Watanabe lied about it to cover his mistakes. No, that lines actually supports the SSJ2 side. Edited by Gohan Boo, Mar 17 2014, 05:28 AM.



+ Emmeth	Mar 17 2014, 05:34 AM Post #52
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Gohan Boo Mar 17 2014, 05:27 AM No, that lines actually supports the SSJ2 side. Explain to me how it does.
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Gohan Boo	Mar 17 2014, 05:36 AM Post #53
Posts: 294 Group: Member Member #10,812 Joined: January 31, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	He went SSJ2 easily at the Budokai just one hour ago.



+ Emmeth	Mar 17 2014, 05:38 AM Post #54
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Gohan Boo Mar 17 2014, 05:36 AM He went SSJ2 easily at the Budokai just one hour ago. That's your explanation? That's not enough, I'm afraid.
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Gohan Boo	Mar 17 2014, 05:41 AM Post #55
Posts: 294 Group: Member Member #10,812 Joined: January 31, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Why would Goku mention to Gohan his rage against Cell and mean SSJ2 by it, if he went SSJ2 easily before?



+ Emmeth	Mar 17 2014, 05:51 AM Post #56
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Gohan Boo Mar 17 2014, 05:41 AM Why would Goku mention to Gohan his rage against Cell and mean SSJ2 by it, if he went SSJ2 easily before? Maybe he meant the rage Gohan unleashed when 16 was destroyed? Gohan was mad at the Budokai because he had just seen Videl be beat to near-death.
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AA500	Mar 17 2014, 05:51 AM Post #57
Posts: 2,079 Group: Member Member #9,363 Joined: April 11, 2013 Gender Not Specified	Gohan Boo Mar 17 2014, 05:27 AM -Who's to say, that the SSJ2s' lightning isn't there just to show, that they are strong?Gohan was portrayed as trash at that point, so he would lack the sparks. Vegeta had sparks during his fight with Kid Boo and he was getting his a*** beat, Gohan was at least going back and fourth with Dabura but Vegeta was getting wrecked. That should debunk that point



Gohan Boo	Mar 17 2014, 05:56 AM Post #58
Posts: 294 Group: Member Member #10,812 Joined: January 31, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	He wasn't mad.Videl was even healed and safe.He even smiled at his schoolmates. Even so, he saw his two close friends gets stoned, before being told that killing Dabra will remove the effect on them.He has as much of a reason to be angry at Dabra as at Spopovich. Vegeta wasn't treated as trash, was he?



+ Yusuke	Mar 17 2014, 05:57 AM Post #59
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	- The bottom line is that all SSJ2's in the manga are shows with sparks, something only Gohan had during the Budokai. Face it buddy, I proved you wrong here. - That's a pretty weak argument right there. If Buutenks was stronger than Gohan, why wouldn't he kill him off the bat? If Pure Buu were stronger than Vegeta, why didn't he kill him? Your not supposed to question these things. And hey, Gohan already had the edge in the fight as an SSJ so there you go. - Once again, i've proved you wrong in the SSJ/SSJ2 debate. Right now, your sounding really desperate to make something up. - Who says he needs to? It makes logical sense for him to be talking about the Cell he fought. Otherwise, we might as well assume Buff Cell. - That's the thing. Gohan knows with even all that he can't beat Buu so why bother. - My point is that Goku was supressed various times in the past so it's likely that he was supressed in Beers's statement. Gohan was clearly shown to fight in his Mystic form and only used SS at the end of M14
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AA500	Mar 17 2014, 05:58 AM Post #60
Posts: 2,079 Group: Member Member #9,363 Joined: April 11, 2013 Gender Not Specified	Gohan Boo Mar 17 2014, 05:56 AM Vegeta wasn't treated as trash, was he? He was getting s*** stomped pretty hard, that kinda seems like getting treated like trash



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