Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 7 2014, 09:32 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 7 2014, 04:01 PM

Here are the quotes from an earlier post. I'll go back and watch the episode and the Goku/Si fight in a bit.

Quote:

 

Super Yi Xing Long: "It's no use, Goku. Once a Dragon Ball is absorbed into my body, the power of the minus energy that flows within me pollutes it again. He has been reborn with his evil power at full throttle."

"It appears that my minus power has completely taken his soft side from him this time. He is indeed an Evil Dragon!"

"Surely, you took on my minus power!"

All that did was supposedly make him his ki more "evil". His power is still the same.

Not to mention Goku had a much better fight with Nuova where as Vegeta was a practice dummy for him.

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 8 2014, 04:17 AM

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 7 2014, 09:32 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 7 2014, 04:01 PM

Here are the quotes from an earlier post. I'll go back and watch the episode and the Goku/Si fight in a bit.

Quote:

 

Super Yi Xing Long: "It's no use, Goku. Once a Dragon Ball is absorbed into my body, the power of the minus energy that flows within me pollutes it again. He has been reborn with his evil power at full throttle."

"It appears that my minus power has completely taken his soft side from him this time. He is indeed an Evil Dragon!"

"Surely, you took on my minus power!"

All that did was supposedly make him his ki more "evil". His power is still the same.

Not to mention Goku had a much better fight with Nuova where as Vegeta was a practice dummy for him.

Yi Xing Long acted as if his minus energy had made Si stronger, even if you take it to mean his nature. It'd be a similar case as Dabura, where his magic made him a tougher opponent to beat, but not necessarily stronger power-wise.

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

I don't think the fight between Goku and Si was as even as you're making it out to be.

From the beginning of the fight, Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage. He was taking damage while Si was taking none. He was being hit by blasts while being unable to hit Si with anything until 5 minutes into the fight (about 6:30 in Episode 56) when he got a point-blank headbutt, which didn't do much damage and which Si recovered from within moments. Even Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha was rendered useless against Si's speed; that's pretty impressive. After that, Goku went on the run and had to use a mirror trick to get the dragon to submit. They reset and were about to engage again, but the fight ended there because of San's interference.

Like it's been shown in Z, even if you have the power, it's no use if you can't hit your opponent. Si held the advantage the entire time until the mirror trick, and proclaimed when San interfered that he would've won using his own technique and power.

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

Quote:

 

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

Quote:

 

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 8 2014, 09:01 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 8 2014, 04:17 AM

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 7 2014, 09:32 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 7 2014, 04:01 PM

Here are the quotes from an earlier post. I'll go back and watch the episode and the Goku/Si fight in a bit.

Quote:

 

Super Yi Xing Long: "It's no use, Goku. Once a Dragon Ball is absorbed into my body, the power of the minus energy that flows within me pollutes it again. He has been reborn with his evil power at full throttle."

"It appears that my minus power has completely taken his soft side from him this time. He is indeed an Evil Dragon!"

"Surely, you took on my minus power!"

All that did was supposedly make him his ki more "evil". His power is still the same.

Not to mention Goku had a much better fight with Nuova where as Vegeta was a practice dummy for him.

Yi Xing Long acted as if his minus energy had made Si stronger, even if you take it to mean his nature. It'd be a similar case as Dabura, where his magic made him a tougher opponent to beat, but not necessarily stronger power-wise.

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

I don't think the fight between Goku and Si was as even as you're making it out to be.

From the beginning of the fight, Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage. He was taking damage while Si was taking none. He was being hit by blasts while being unable to hit Si with anything until 5 minutes into the fight (about 6:30 in Episode 56) when he got a point-blank headbutt, which didn't do much damage and which Si recovered from within moments. Even Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha was rendered useless against Si's speed; that's pretty impressive. After that, Goku went on the run and had to use a mirror trick to get the dragon to submit. They reset and were about to engage again, but the fight ended there because of San's interference.

Like it's been shown in Z, even if you have the power, it's no use if you can't hit your opponent. Si held the advantage the entire time until the mirror trick, and proclaimed when San interfered that he would've won using his own technique and power.

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

Quote:

 

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

All he was saying was that Goku was no match for Nuova now that he was weakened and that Nuova had Syn's "evil" ki. Hell, during this part of time, Goku might have been in Base form.

Goku even stated that he had the power advantage were as Nuova had the speed advantage. Vegeta had none of that and was only a punching bag for Nuova.

Quote:

 

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

You realize this only weakens your argument right?

If Nuova wasn't trying to fight Vegeta and Vegeta is trying to swing at him like a madman, that speaks wonders about Vegeta's power placement.

Quote:

 

All he was saying was that Goku was no match for Nuova now that he was weakened and that Nuova had Syn's "evil" ki. Hell, during this part of time, Goku might have been in Base form.

Quote:

 

Goku even stated that he had the power advantage were as Nuova had the speed advantage. Vegeta had none of that and was only a punching bag for Nuova.

Quote:

 

You realize this only weakens your argument right?

If Nuova wasn't trying to fight Vegeta and Vegeta is trying to swing at him like a madman, that speaks wonders about Vegeta's power placement.

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 8 2014, 09:46 PM

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 8 2014, 09:01 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 8 2014, 04:17 AM

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 7 2014, 09:32 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 7 2014, 04:01 PM

Here are the quotes from an earlier post. I'll go back and watch the episode and the Goku/Si fight in a bit.

Quote:

 

Super Yi Xing Long: "It's no use, Goku. Once a Dragon Ball is absorbed into my body, the power of the minus energy that flows within me pollutes it again. He has been reborn with his evil power at full throttle."

"It appears that my minus power has completely taken his soft side from him this time. He is indeed an Evil Dragon!"

"Surely, you took on my minus power!"

All that did was supposedly make him his ki more "evil". His power is still the same.

Not to mention Goku had a much better fight with Nuova where as Vegeta was a practice dummy for him.

Yi Xing Long acted as if his minus energy had made Si stronger, even if you take it to mean his nature. It'd be a similar case as Dabura, where his magic made him a tougher opponent to beat, but not necessarily stronger power-wise.

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

I don't think the fight between Goku and Si was as even as you're making it out to be.

From the beginning of the fight, Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage. He was taking damage while Si was taking none. He was being hit by blasts while being unable to hit Si with anything until 5 minutes into the fight (about 6:30 in Episode 56) when he got a point-blank headbutt, which didn't do much damage and which Si recovered from within moments. Even Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha was rendered useless against Si's speed; that's pretty impressive. After that, Goku went on the run and had to use a mirror trick to get the dragon to submit. They reset and were about to engage again, but the fight ended there because of San's interference.

Like it's been shown in Z, even if you have the power, it's no use if you can't hit your opponent. Si held the advantage the entire time until the mirror trick, and proclaimed when San interfered that he would've won using his own technique and power.

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

Quote:

 

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

All he was saying was that Goku was no match for Nuova now that he was weakened and that Nuova had Syn's "evil" ki. Hell, during this part of time, Goku might have been in Base form.

Goku even stated that he had the power advantage were as Nuova had the speed advantage. Vegeta had none of that and was only a punching bag for Nuova.

Quote:

 

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

You realize this only weakens your argument right?

If Nuova wasn't trying to fight Vegeta and Vegeta is trying to swing at him like a madman, that speaks wonders about Vegeta's power placement.

I really feel like you skimmed my post at best, or simply didn't understand the points I was trying to make, because that was all brought up in it. Your entire argument was pre-countered.

Quote:

 

All he was saying was that Goku was no match for Nuova now that he was weakened and that Nuova had Syn's "evil" ki. Hell, during this part of time, Goku might have been in Base form.

Goku being no match for Si at that time wasn't the point. Yi's emphasis on "now that he's been reborn with my minus power" was.

Quote:

 

Goku even stated that he had the power advantage were as Nuova had the speed advantage. Vegeta had none of that and was only a punching bag for Nuova.

This was the majority of my post so where did I go wrong in explaining it?

My counter

My previous post

 

I don't think the fight between Goku and Si was as even as you're making it out to be.

From the beginning of the fight, Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage. He was taking damage while Si was taking none. He was being hit by blasts while being unable to hit Si with anything until 5 minutes into the fight (about 6:30 in Episode 56) when he got a point-blank headbutt, which didn't do much damage and which Si recovered from within moments. Even Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha was rendered useless against Si's speed; that's pretty impressive. After that, Goku went on the run and had to use a mirror trick to get the dragon to submit. They reset and were about to engage again, but the fight ended there because of San's interference.

Like it's been shown in Z, even if you have the power, it's no use if you can't hit your opponent. Si held the advantage the entire time until the mirror trick, and proclaimed when San interfered that he would've won using his own technique and power.

Quote:

 

You realize this only weakens your argument right?

If Nuova wasn't trying to fight Vegeta and Vegeta is trying to swing at him like a madman, that speaks wonders about Vegeta's power placement.

It doesn't weaken my argument because it wasn't a real fight like it was with Goku, and on top of that as I've pointed out again now, Goku was just as ineffective in the long run. He couldn't match Si in close-quarters or long distance, his one successful attack did no damage, one of his most impressive techniques was completely useless, and he resorted to running into a building to find a way other than direct combat to win the fight at one point. That was when Si wasn't trying to appear completely "evil" too.

I don't mean to come off as condescending in this post. I merely feel as if my points are being lost in translation.

Quote:

 

Goku being no match for Si at that time wasn't the point. Yi's emphasis on "now that he's been reborn with my minus power" was.

Quote:

 

This was the majority of my post so where did I go wrong in explaining it?

Quote:

 

It doesn't weaken my argument because it wasn't a real fight like it was with Goku, and on top of that as I've pointed out again now, Goku was just as ineffective in the long run. He couldn't match Si in close-quarters or long distance, his one successful attack did no damage, one of his most impressive techniques was completely useless, and he resorted to running into a building to find a way other than direct combat to win the fight at one point. That was when Si wasn't trying to appear completely "evil" too.

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 8 2014, 10:00 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 8 2014, 09:46 PM

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 8 2014, 09:01 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 8 2014, 04:17 AM

Yusuke Urameshi

Mar 7 2014, 09:32 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Mar 7 2014, 04:01 PM

Here are the quotes from an earlier post. I'll go back and watch the episode and the Goku/Si fight in a bit.

Quote:

 

Super Yi Xing Long: "It's no use, Goku. Once a Dragon Ball is absorbed into my body, the power of the minus energy that flows within me pollutes it again. He has been reborn with his evil power at full throttle."

"It appears that my minus power has completely taken his soft side from him this time. He is indeed an Evil Dragon!"

"Surely, you took on my minus power!"

All that did was supposedly make him his ki more "evil". His power is still the same.

Not to mention Goku had a much better fight with Nuova where as Vegeta was a practice dummy for him.

Yi Xing Long acted as if his minus energy had made Si stronger, even if you take it to mean his nature. It'd be a similar case as Dabura, where his magic made him a tougher opponent to beat, but not necessarily stronger power-wise.

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

I don't think the fight between Goku and Si was as even as you're making it out to be.

From the beginning of the fight, Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage. He was taking damage while Si was taking none. He was being hit by blasts while being unable to hit Si with anything until 5 minutes into the fight (about 6:30 in Episode 56) when he got a point-blank headbutt, which didn't do much damage and which Si recovered from within moments. Even Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha was rendered useless against Si's speed; that's pretty impressive. After that, Goku went on the run and had to use a mirror trick to get the dragon to submit. They reset and were about to engage again, but the fight ended there because of San's interference.

Like it's been shown in Z, even if you have the power, it's no use if you can't hit your opponent. Si held the advantage the entire time until the mirror trick, and proclaimed when San interfered that he would've won using his own technique and power.

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

Quote:

 

Episode 62
Time: 24m10s
Context: after Si Xing Long beats Goku
Yi Xing Long: "That was a boring fight. Goku was no match for Si Xing Long after all, now that he is reborn with my minus energy!"

All he was saying was that Goku was no match for Nuova now that he was weakened and that Nuova had Syn's "evil" ki. Hell, during this part of time, Goku might have been in Base form.

Goku even stated that he had the power advantage were as Nuova had the speed advantage. Vegeta had none of that and was only a punching bag for Nuova.

Quote:

 

Si wasn't trying to fight Vegeta. He was trying to get him out of the way to enact his and Goku's plan. If he was actually trying to fight Vegeta, things might have gone differently.

You realize this only weakens your argument right?

If Nuova wasn't trying to fight Vegeta and Vegeta is trying to swing at him like a madman, that speaks wonders about Vegeta's power placement.

I really feel like you skimmed my post at best, or simply didn't understand the points I was trying to make, because that was all brought up in it. Your entire argument was pre-countered.

Quote:

 

All he was saying was that Goku was no match for Nuova now that he was weakened and that Nuova had Syn's "evil" ki. Hell, during this part of time, Goku might have been in Base form.

Goku being no match for Si at that time wasn't the point. Yi's emphasis on "now that he's been reborn with my minus power" was.

Quote:

 

Goku even stated that he had the power advantage were as Nuova had the speed advantage. Vegeta had none of that and was only a punching bag for Nuova.

This was the majority of my post so where did I go wrong in explaining it?

My counter

My previous post

 

I don't think the fight between Goku and Si was as even as you're making it out to be.

From the beginning of the fight, Goku was at a noticeable disadvantage. He was taking damage while Si was taking none. He was being hit by blasts while being unable to hit Si with anything until 5 minutes into the fight (about 6:30 in Episode 56) when he got a point-blank headbutt, which didn't do much damage and which Si recovered from within moments. Even Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha was rendered useless against Si's speed; that's pretty impressive. After that, Goku went on the run and had to use a mirror trick to get the dragon to submit. They reset and were about to engage again, but the fight ended there because of San's interference.

Like it's been shown in Z, even if you have the power, it's no use if you can't hit your opponent. Si held the advantage the entire time until the mirror trick, and proclaimed when San interfered that he would've won using his own technique and power.

Quote:

 

You realize this only weakens your argument right?

If Nuova wasn't trying to fight Vegeta and Vegeta is trying to swing at him like a madman, that speaks wonders about Vegeta's power placement.

It doesn't weaken my argument because it wasn't a real fight like it was with Goku, and on top of that as I've pointed out again now, Goku was just as ineffective in the long run. He couldn't match Si in close-quarters or long distance, his one successful attack did no damage, one of his most impressive techniques was completely useless, and he resorted to running into a building to find a way other than direct combat to win the fight at one point. That was when Si wasn't trying to appear completely "evil" too.

I don't mean to come off as condescending in this post. I merely feel as if my points are being lost in translation.

Quote:

 

Goku being no match for Si at that time wasn't the point. Yi's emphasis on "now that he's been reborn with my minus power" was.

Exactly! He's only saying that Nuova was brought back with his negative energy. Not that Nuova got stronger.

Quote:

 

This was the majority of my post so where did I go wrong in explaining it?

I'm aware of that. It's just that there's nothing to show that Vegeta had any kind of advantage in power where as Goku did.

Quote:

 

It doesn't weaken my argument because it wasn't a real fight like it was with Goku, and on top of that as I've pointed out again now, Goku was just as ineffective in the long run. He couldn't match Si in close-quarters or long distance, his one successful attack did no damage, one of his most impressive techniques was completely useless, and he resorted to running into a building to find a way other than direct combat to win the fight at one point. That was when Si wasn't trying to appear completely "evil" too.

The thing is, at least Goku had a better showing then Vegeta did against Nuova. He wasn't completely getting wrecked against him and landed a few attacks even though it wasn't very effective in the grand scheme of things. Nuova wasn't trying to appear evil because he really wasn't. He only had to do that when he was supposively "evil" after being brought back by Syn.

Quote:

 

Exactly! He's only saying that Nuova was brought back with his negative energy. Not that Nuova got stronger.

Quote:

 

I'm aware of that. It's just that there's nothing to show that Vegeta had any kind of advantage in power where as Goku did.

Quote:

 

The thing is, at least Goku had a better showing then Vegeta did against Nuova. He wasn't completely getting wrecked against him and landed a few attacks even though it wasn't very effective in the grand scheme of things. Nuova wasn't trying to appear evil because he really wasn't. He only had to do that when he was supposively "evil" after being brought back by Syn.

Quote:

 

That's why I likened it to Dabura. Si Xing Long being brought back with Yi's minus energy and appearing more uninhibited, more evil, made him appear tougher than before.

Quote:

 

There was nothing to show Goku had any power advantage against Si. If he didn't say it himself, I doubt you'd be arguing he did.

Quote:

 

Goku only landed the one headbutt, and that was when they were both right in front of each other. The rest of the fight, apart from the mirror trick, was completely Si Xing Long's, and Goku was getting tossed around just like Vegeta was. And that's what I was saying about Si, him trying to appear evil when he fought Vegeta and not Goku.