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| Different fitness standards for men and women in the army | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 25 2014, 07:05 PM (722 Views) | |
| * Mitas | Feb 25 2014, 07:05 PM Post #1 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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I recently found out that as a general rule, the fitness standards for women wishing to enter the army are lower than for men. From the British Army website: Beep Test (basically a stamina test) - Male requirements: Level 10.2 Female Requirements: Level 8.1 Sit-ups - Male Requirements: 50 in 2 minutes Female Requirements: 50 in 2 minutes Press-ups - Male Requirements: 44 in 2 minutes Female Requirements: 21 in 2 minutes I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are on this. I personally strongly disagree. I think that both men and women should be held to the same standards, especially in a place where the person's life, and the lives of their peers, will be at stake. Surely gender equality means that there should be no preferential treatment for either gender. I'm not against women joining the army. Not at all. I just think that they should be held to the same standards as men, and if that means that the number of women in the army falls, then so be it. I just don't think that a man with higher results than a woman applicant, but lower than the male minimum requirements, should be turned away, when the woman with lower results would be accepted because of her gender. Edited by Mitas, Feb 25 2014, 07:06 PM.
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 "Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Feb 25 2014, 11:21 PM Post #2 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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It's more about image than consistency, to be completely honest. This is also the reason why (in the US) it's quite rare to find female state troopers because they need to pass an obstacle course in order for them to become state troopers. The failure rate is way higher for women than it is for men, and the standard is high enough to where most women simply don't even bother going for that profession in the first place. It's common knowledge that women aren't naturally as physically able as men are. It's not that they can't do it, but generally they have to train twice as hard as men in order to get the same results in an obstacle course, and even then, often their results are less than what the men are capable of; and on occasion, even after training twice as hard, they won't even meet "standard". By having two different standards for gender, the recruiting party is then able to have a more diverse body of troops. And it's not like it makes a difference in the US at least because women weren't even allowed to fight in the US military until this past year. Which to me was ridiculous because they put them through the same training as the men who are actually able to opt to fight instead of doing support work. That to me doesn't make sense. If you're going to hold them to the same standard for their training, you might as well allow them to have the same options of what their roles are going to be in the same institution as well. It's still a pretty controversial issue in the US. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Feb 25 2014, 11:26 PM.
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 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| lunar2 | Feb 26 2014, 04:05 AM Post #3 |
 
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actually, the women were fighting. the law was that they couldn't be placed in combat units. so they were put in "support' units that were stationed with the combat units. they were doing the same fighting as the men, but because they were not officially in combat, they weren't getting the recognition for it. also, the US military has different fitness minimums for men and women, as well. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| SSJ | Feb 26 2014, 04:10 AM Post #4 |
 
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I don't see why a female would be accepted with a beep test score two lower than that of males though. I can agree with what Ketchup said about males being naturally stronger, and females having to train a hell of a lot harder to match them. However, how does this apply to cardiovascular fitness? I know many females who are incredibly fit, and can probably get 10+ on the beep test. Why is the cutoff nearly two lower for females in that category? That part just doesn't seem fair to me. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Mar 1 2014, 07:48 AM Post #5 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Men and women have different sized lungs and hearts. Women can't achieve heart rates as high as mens', and due to their hearts being smaller, can't pump as much blood as quickly around their systems as men can, so women's oxygen saturation levels are usually a lot lower than mens' when the same amount of exercise is done. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Mar 1 2014, 07:51 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| lunar2 | Mar 1 2014, 06:50 PM Post #6 |
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but that is an issue. just because a woman can't perform as well physically, doesn't mean she should get lower standards for a physically demanding job. if the job demands x level of fitness, then it demands that level regardless of the individual applying. if you aren't good enough, you just aren't good enough. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Mar 2 2014, 09:46 PM Post #7 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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You're logic is sickeningly flawed. Just to give you a comparison, that would be equivalent to the government ruling that a single father of a baby isn't good enough because he can't nurse it. How does that seem fair? If a woman has the right level of drive, she can prove to be better than any man in her platoon. Numbers are only half of the equation. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Mar 2 2014, 09:47 PM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Pelador | Mar 2 2014, 09:52 PM Post #8 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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That's a terrible comparison. I think this is pretty open and shut. The job demands a certain level of performance or it can't be achieved to it's full potential. In a war this is potentially disastrous. If you can't run as far as what is required then you are going to be in trouble. If you can't carry a certain weight load over distance, you are going to be in trouble. Lowering standards just to make a demographic appear more equal is stupid and dangerous. Edited by Pelador, Mar 2 2014, 09:53 PM.
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| Mihawk | Mar 2 2014, 09:54 PM Post #9 |
 
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I don't think you understood his logic. The correct equivalency would be that a single father of a baby is deemed unfit for nursing because he can't nurse it. If a woman has proven that she can be better than any man that obviously she should get the position. The problem at hand is that if a woman has proven that she is unfit for a position, we shouldn't lower the standards in the name of "equality". |
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| lunar2 | Mar 2 2014, 10:10 PM Post #10 |
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except you don't need to able to nurse to raise a baby. formula is a thing. to be a soldier, you do need to be able to run as fast as the rest of your unit, or you slow the whole unit down. you do need to be strong enough to carry all your equipment, or you won't have the gear you need. you do need to have the endurance to cover long distances while doing both of the above, or you won't be able to get where you are needed. if you can't perform at the minimum level of competence, the entire unit suffers, not just you. so no, you shouldn't get a pass just because you are a woman, because lives depend on you being able to perform your duties. that doesn't mean women can't be in the military. it just means they have to meet the same standards as the men. if that means the demographics are skewed, or that women have to work harder than men, so be it. what's more important, making sure the military is 50.8% women, or making sure the military is effective? obviously, making sure the military can actually do it's job is more important than any demographic measure. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Meowth | Mar 2 2014, 10:44 PM Post #11 |
=._.=
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I think one vital point is also missing here, women aren't in general going to be given the same role as their male counterparts, unless they can match or better the male expectations. The limits are lower to make sure that more women have a chance to serve in the army, it just wouldn't be in the same capacity. The test is still physically demanding, is it not? So it's not like they would make terrible soldiers, it's doubtful they would even be put on the front lines anyway. There are plenty of jobs they can take in the army without it having a detrimental effect on the unit as a whole. You can't take the numbers at face value, there is most likely more to it than that, this is just entry criteria right? |
 
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| lunar2 | Mar 2 2014, 11:16 PM Post #12 |
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but women are put on the front lines. at least in the U.S. military. until recently, they weren't technically in the infantry, but they were put in "combat support" units that were stationed with the combat units, and would be deployed alongside them. they were doing the same jobs, they just weren't getting the recognition for it. also, according to an article i just read, both male and female soldiers are arguing that the physical standards for combat units should be the same for both men and women. the men want the high standards because they want to protect the effectiveness of their units, while the women want the high standards because they want to prove they can do the same things the men can. although, only about 20% of women in the military actually want to be put in combat units, and most of them want into special forces or the infantry, the two most physically demanding roles. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Mar 2 2014, 11:33 PM Post #13 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Women being put on the front lines definitely doesn't happen nearly as often as men are put there. There's plenty of soldiers currently posting personal videos online of what they're doing and where they are, and I have yet to run across a video where a woman can be seen. |
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| Mihawk | Mar 2 2014, 11:50 PM Post #14 |
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I don't have a problem if woman aren't given roles that would hurt the army if they can't make the physical demand. Currently as far as I know woman are not well integrated into the front lines, but the plan is to eventually make them fully integrated by 2016 regardless of not being able to pass the original men-only fitness test. |
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