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The Trunks and Android arc Bridge
Topic Started: Jan 25 2014, 04:51 AM (713 Views)
Professor Gohan
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Something I wanted to have a little discussion about for a better grasp.

There's a 3 year gap between the time Trunks arrived and the time Doctor Gero and his kids appeared. The Z-Gang trained for the androids and this is the point of the series where everyone gets up to new levels of power against the really stronger villains.

How much stronger than everyone get from Trunks to the Androids? What kind of gains were obtained?

The Freeza arc left off at one-hundred millions. What about Trunks arc and Androids arc?
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SSJ
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There is really no way of knowing for sure. However, we can make estimates. So in the Mecha Freeza saga, we already know that the Super Saiyans could one shot Freeza. Then Trunks states that two Androids were a lot stronger than he was. He said he could fight them decently, but not close enough to beat them. Then after the three year gap, Android 19/20 were being compared to Future 17/18. Vegeta thought of them both as trash however.

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”


Here is where we can see that SSJ Trunks couldn't beat the Androids 1 on 1.

Considering the Androids cannot be sensed, we can't know how strong they were, but Piccolo says this:

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.2-3
Piccolo: “It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you two androids…But it looks like the future has changed somehow…Was it that you weren’t as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?...


Piccolo has a tough time deciding whether the gains they made were substantial, or whether the Androids were weaker than expected. So if we consider the Androids to be weaker than expected, we can possibly consider them to be as weak as SSJ Trunks (Pre 3 Years). The reason I say this, is because the Z fighters were expecting people much stronger than Trunks. They could still be weaker than expected, and be around the same area as that Trunks though.

What we do know though, is that a heavily drained SSJ Vegeta was enough to overpower Android 19, who had absorbed a lot of energy from Goku. So in my opinion, weakened SSJ Vegeta should be enough to still beat SSJ Trunks (Pre 3 Years) with ease. And this is if we consider the Androids to be stronger than Trunks. I believe it is reasonable if the post-absorption Androids are stronger than Trunks though, it just makes sense with all of the energy they absorbed.

So yeah, if I had to guess, I would think Vegeta was weakened a good deal if he needed to bluff his way around Android 20. Vegeta needing a senzu bean shows just how low in energy he really was, yet he was still strong enough to destroy 19. So if we consider Vegeta's full power, I can see it reasonable for him to be at least 2x stronger than Android 19/20/SSJ Trunks (Pre gap). So it was a mixture of what Piccolo said. The Androids were weaker than expected, but the Z fighters had really outdone themselves with their training. They are definitely still in the hundreds of millions though.
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+ Pyrus
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SuperSaiyan2
Jan 25 2014, 05:09 AM
There is really no way of knowing for sure. However, we can make estimates. So in the Mecha Freeza saga, we already know that the Super Saiyans could one shot Freeza. Then Trunks states that two Androids were a lot stronger than he was. He said he could fight them decently, but not close enough to beat them. Then after the three year gap, Android 19/20 were being compared to Future 17/18. Vegeta thought of them both as trash however.

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”


Here is where we can see that SSJ Trunks couldn't beat the Androids 1 on 1.

Considering the Androids cannot be sensed, we can't know how strong they were, but Piccolo says this:

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.2-3
Piccolo: “It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you two androids…But it looks like the future has changed somehow…Was it that you weren’t as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?...


Piccolo has a tough time deciding whether the gains they made were substantial, or whether the Androids were weaker than expected. So if we consider the Androids to be weaker than expected, we can possibly consider them to be as weak as SSJ Trunks (Pre 3 Years). The reason I say this, is because the Z fighters were expecting people much stronger than Trunks. They could still be weaker than expected, and be around the same area as that Trunks though.

What we do know though, is that a heavily drained SSJ Vegeta was enough to overpower Android 19, who had absorbed a lot of energy from Goku. So in my opinion, weakened SSJ Vegeta should be enough to still beat SSJ Trunks (Pre 3 Years) with ease. And this is if we consider the Androids to be stronger than Trunks. I believe it is reasonable if the post-absorption Androids are stronger than Trunks though, it just makes sense with all of the energy they absorbed.

So yeah, if I had to guess, I would think Vegeta was weakened a good deal if he needed to bluff his way around Android 20. Vegeta needing a senzu bean shows just how low in energy he really was, yet he was still strong enough to destroy 19. So if we consider Vegeta's full power, I can see it reasonable for him to be at least 2x stronger than Android 19/20/SSJ Trunks (Pre gap). So it was a mixture of what Piccolo said. The Androids were weaker than expected, but the Z fighters had really outdone themselves with their training. They are definitely still in the hundreds of millions though.
SSj Vegeta > SSj Vegeta (drained) > No.19 (post-Vegeta) > No.19 (post-Goku) > No.20 > SSj Vegeta (post-BBA)

Would you agree with that?
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 25 2014, 05:55 AM.
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SSJ
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Eh, I dunno. I don't know if the Big Bang Attack would drain Vegeta so heavily. It seems like this attack that one-ups the Gyarikku-Ho, and that attack didn't appear to drain him too much. Also not sure how I feel about #20. I think he could still be more powerful than 19 post, considering he still allowed him to fight Vegeta. I'm sure 20 would want to remain more powerful than 19, incase he turned on him. Yet he still allowed 19 to absorb Vegeta, which tells me that he thought he could stay superior without Vegeta.

Possibly:

SSJ Vegeta > 20 > SSJ Vegeta Drained > 19 Post Vegeta > SSJ Vegeta post BBA > 19 Post Goku
Edited by SSJ, Jan 25 2014, 06:08 AM.
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No. 20
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^ 19 was allowed to become stronger likely because he was was easier to control. I do not think 20 was concerned about him turning on him when 19 was designed specifically to be more reliable and loyal.
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AvatarReiko
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No. 20
Jan 25 2014, 06:15 AM
^ 19 was allowed to become stronger likely because he was was easier to control. I do not think 20 was concerned about him turning on him when 19 was designed specifically to be more reliable and loyal.

I believe 20(Gero) was stronger. If 19 was stronger, it would be from all the energy he stole from both Vegeta and Goku.
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Alex D. Boss
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20 was indeed stronger until 19 drained Goku's KHH , and even his whole energy which allowed him to fight Vegeta.

#20 Post Piccolo > #20 Post Vegeta's Blast > #19 Post Vegeta Chi > SSJ Vegeta Post BBA> #19 Goku's Chi > #19 KHH > #20 Post Yamcha > #20 > #19

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+ Majin Vegeta
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The resident GT fan!

A lot of gains happened bettwen the two arcs in my opinion, with the best one to be Vegeta.
-Android Arc Goku must have get over 2x times stronger than he's previous shelf
-Android Arc Vegeta got from been weaker than Trunks to be well above him, I will give him a 3x with 4x times increase actually.
-Trunks didn't really made any significant gains at all, not anything special, let's say 1.2x times
-Piccolo he's overpowered, he got from been weaker than Vegeta to be comparable to a SSJ Trunks that's more than a 50x times increase(SSJ Multiplier)
-Humans 2x times gains or so
-Gohan must be close to he's Base father
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