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| Britain's reputation for being ignorant towards other languages | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 22 2014, 11:55 AM (901 Views) | |
| * Mitas | Jan 22 2014, 11:55 AM Post #1 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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I was having a debate with a couple people about British people being 'lazy' and 'ignorant' when it comes to learning a second language. I was arguing that this was not the case, but I came away wanting to find out more about this and whether my argument was wrong. So I found this study: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_386_en.pdf which was comissioned by the EU and carried out very recently (2012). Britain has some of the lowest numbers when it comes to percentage of people who speak a 2nd language (39%). However, we are actually equal to Portugal (39%) and higher than Italy (38%), and Hungary (35%). Spain comes in at 46%, but Spanish and Catalan are the 2nd and 3rd languages respectively, so, and obviously this is speculation, but I would guess if you combine the Spanish and Catalan numbers, the percentage of people who speak a 2nd language would dip to similar levels to the previously mentioned countries. My main argument against this misconception of English-speakers being lazy when it comes to learning a second language is this: at 38% of the entire 27 countries studied, English is by far the second language of choice. It's safe to assume that if there is a 'universal language', it is English. One of the by products of having a 'universal language' is that there are going to be native-speakers of that language. The other non-English speaking countries of the EU, and by extension the world, have an easy choice to make: they choose the 'universal language' of course (obviously not every country, but as a general rule). English speaking countries do not have this same incentive. The fact that our numbers are similar to, or more than, at least the 4 countries mentioned above, when the option of choosing the 'universal language' is not open to us, would actually suggest that we are more open to learning a 2nd language than some countries, and that with that incentive our numbers would bring us higher up the table. So for me, it really comes down to the 'universal language' factor. If the 'universal language' were Spanish, French or German, then that language would replace English in these statistics, and Spain, France and Germany respectively would be deemed 'lazy' and 'ignorant'. Unless the countries of the world come together to create a totally new language, then we will be left with the fact that using an existing language means people who know that language will almost always have lower numbers of people speaking a 2nd language, because their option to learn that language is taken away. |
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| Topographic Oceans | Jan 22 2014, 12:28 PM Post #2 |
 
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English is an universal language, want it or not. Being a foreigner, i can say that it is almost a requirement to learn english if you want to find a job, at least in latin-american countries. I don't think the british are lazy, i just think it's not that useful to them to learn a second langauage. They don't hava a true necessity to do it. English is the language that rules the world, and most people need to have it as a second langauge (those who don't have it as first language, obviously) in this days. It is like a requirement. There's not much need to countries that primarily speak english to learn any other language, because there's not a langauage as important as it nowadays. Of course a American or British can learn another langauage if they want. But it's not that needed and nor is it a requirement like it is for most people of foreign countries, to learn a second lanagauge. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 22 2014, 12:51 PM Post #3 |
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Languages are interesting, but as someone who struggles enough with English they never became a passion for me. There's something romantic about the idea of being able to speak in multiple tongues, but the reality is that you can get buy in most of the world with English. What's funny is that out of everywhere I've been, I've had more issues with people not understanding me in the USA (British Londoner here) than I have in non-English speaking countries. I've been to a lot of weird places foreigners wouldn't usually go in the US, so I'm kinda used to it. But I remember once at Disney (Florida) an employee could not understand that I was asking for water. And even after saying "clear...liquid? To drink? Free?" She was still perplexed. I'd understand in some places in the US, because being caught off guard by the British pronunciation "wall-tah" (or "wall-ter" when we're really trying hard - It's literally impossible to say water as Americans do without putting on an American accent, we do not have the "waa" sound) is understandable. And once you're thrown, it's hard to get back to rationalising what's being asked of you. But at Disney OrlandoL? Where every other person is a foreigner? Mind boggles. People learn what they need to learn or what they enjoy learning about. That goes for everything. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 22 2014, 12:54 PM Post #4 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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We should also take into account that a lot of foreign countries start learning second languages at around ages 5 and 6. In this country we don't learn until aged 13. By that time the parts of the brain which are used for learning languages have pretty much shut up shop. Unless you are multilingual. People who can pick up foreign languages very quickly have special types of brains where the language learning areas stay active forever. That's not a standard thing for a brain. I think if children were taught another language from the first day of school then we'd be doing a lot better in these surveys. |
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| * Mitas | Jan 22 2014, 01:08 PM Post #5 |
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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My sister is studying to become a primary school teacher and I was talking to her about this too. She said that our education system is actually improving in regards to learning languages, and that during her placement she has seen children as young as 6 and 7 learning languages. So I agree, in 15-20 years, the number of people with a second language in Britain will increase and we will most likely find ourselves in the middle of the table of countries above, which would be impressive when you factor in that we do not have the benefit of our numbers being enhanced by the 'universal language'. |
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| + Clearin | Jan 22 2014, 01:28 PM Post #6 |
 
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I think like everyone else said, English is probably the most important language in the world, so it makes sense for everyone to learn it. Other languages can be useful, but they're usefulness is a little more situational. Also not sure how many people, or countries, this applies to but a few foreign people I know actually picked up a lot of English by watching undubbed English TV shows when they were children, while we don't really get any shows in another language. |
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| Topographic Oceans | Jan 22 2014, 01:31 PM Post #7 |
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The english they teach kids and teenagers in schools here is extremely basic, and most people that learn it only trough school can barely write a cohesive sentence in english. People have to seek other ways to learn it, like super-expensive alternative english classes. A lot of people learn it trough the internet (myself included, i've mostly picked it up by watching and reading a lot of things in english), because if you want to learn it trough the school, you are hopeless. It's much better in some other countries, tough. I've heard of a lot of non-english speaking countries that have a really high standart of english classes. I think it would be great to include the teaching of other languages in english speaking countries, even if the universal langauage is already the primary language. The thing is, you need a lot of patience to learn a new lanuage. Edited by Topographic Oceans, Jan 22 2014, 01:34 PM.
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| + Steve | Jan 22 2014, 02:11 PM Post #8 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I wouldn't say we're lazy about it, most of us these days are poor, why do we need another language? It's not like we have the money to travel all over the world and we don't live on the same landmass as people who use another language as their main, so there's many foreign people we come in to contact with. Like Spain and France, since they're connected a lot more French people will go to Spain and vice versa whereas here we get a few tourists here and there from all over the world, there is no one language we can learn that would be more beneficial than others unless we're seeking a job based around that so it is kind of a pointless waste of brain power unless you want a job like that or will be abroad a lot. I think better than a universal language would be to teach everyone sign language at an early age, that's more useful really it can be the same round the whole world and then you can talk to absolutely everyone but foreign blind people and those who just don't know it. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 22 2014, 04:17 PM Post #9 |
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I've never met a def person but I have met a few French, Spanish and Polish people. Which ones do you think most people are more likely to run into in their lifetimes? They might have one or maybe even two def friends or perhaps someone at their work could be def? But it's probably less chance than meeting someone from Europe. So no I don't think being taught mandatory sign language is a practical idea. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 22 2014, 07:08 PM Post #10 |
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Travel is more affordable today than it's ever been. ...But I like your sign language idea. People don't seem to realise quite how alienating deafness can be. And it's not as if sign language isn't useful for those with perfect hearing. Having worked in jobs with various hand gestures and signals in place because it's too loud or staff are too far apart to communicate effectively, my job would have been a whole lot easier if we all knew basic sign language. And you'd be surprised how misconstrued trying to gesture wait, stop, sit down, stand back, etc. can actually be. I took sign language at school as an extra course. I honestly don't remember anything though, because I never practiced. I know how to sign drunk, octopus, crocodile and some alphabet. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 22 2014, 07:44 PM Post #11 |
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I think it's important to note that sign language is different in every country. |
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| + Steve | Jan 22 2014, 08:32 PM Post #12 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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That's why I said if it was universal, it wouldn't need to be different in that case because...why? Everyone has the same two hands so it can be exactly the same. Just in different regions I'd imagine there'd be like slang signs and stuff but overall you could "talk" to basically everyone without having to remember a whole language. Would be good if you were in an accident too a lot of the time you can go deaf, if you can't hear paramedics asking you where it hurts or whatever it'd be all the more stressful. Plus if you were in a foreign country where you wouldn't understand their speech anyway. I think sign language would be a bit more practical to be worldwide or mostly so than English, it doesn't matter if you know the language the way you talk might be hard to understand like I can't understand what Indian people say in English their accent makes it sound like gibberish, Chinese people too even a strong Yorkshire accent I'm like...what? To everything said. That's just me but there's always going to be some accents people don't understand, sign language eliminates that problem. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to practice either and you'd sound less of an idiot since you wouldn't be saying anything  EDIT also there's the culture aspect a lot of countries wouldn't want their language sidelined for English so sign would be easier to implement. Edited by Steve, Jan 22 2014, 08:35 PM.
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| Ben | Jan 23 2014, 02:00 AM Post #13 |
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I have to say, this is one of the things that fascinates me about the difference between British and American culture. You guys are worried about being ignorant for not speaking multiple languages, we're angry at immigrants for not speaking English and asbolutely appalled when someone expects us to learn Spanish. Two people separated by a common tongue indeed. 
Edited by Ben, Jan 23 2014, 02:23 AM.
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| + Steve | Jan 23 2014, 03:17 PM Post #14 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Here I think we're a lot more bothered about them taking our jobs, we don't want to talk to people anyway I think it's probably better we make everyone know English first the amount of misplaced your/you're their/there/they're 's is appalling. Not to mention misspellings like board instead of bored. I see board but they still put boring instead of boaring like what even is that. I see that on a daily basis, it's depressing. |
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Jan 23 2014, 03:44 PM Post #15 |
Formerly known as daman
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Well there are people in Britain who get mad about people not speaking English too. Not sure how big a problem it is realistically though seeing as in the last census only 138,000 said they couldn't speak English and another 726,000 said they couldn't speak it well, which means 864,000 spoke it less than well. Considering over 500,00 people enter the UK legally every year and have done for a few years seems like in reality it's a minority who don't speak English with much proficiency and an even smaller percentage who don't speak it at all. On topic like said it's not really just British people not learning other languages but people from places where English is the first language in general. Generally it seems like people learn a second language when they think it can get them into a better occupational or socioeconomic position (like if you speak a regional language but another language is used in the civil service you'll want to learn that language) or if the most widely spoken language around you is another language (say if you speak the grew up speaking the official language but you live in a region that mostly speaks a regional language) or if you have family who speak another language. If you live in a language where English is the most widely spoken language most of the time you're not going to have any of the above 3 incentives to learn a new language. I don't think it's very good that people think "English is the best I'm not going to learn anything else" since it hardly promotes understanding or knowledge about the world (seeing as if you can read and speak 2 languages you're obviously going to have access to more sources of information, and sometimes sources in another language are much more trustworthy on some issues) but in a lot of countries nationalism like is encouraged anyway, not just in English-speaking places. The funny thing is English is quite a logical language, at least among Indo-European languages.... |
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