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Does Fusion make you smarter?
Topic Started: Jan 21 2014, 03:34 PM (710 Views)
Hearts
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This feels like common sense but ive never seen it adressed in any way.
Does the Fusion make you smarter? Does it add something like the IQ of the both people into one.. Aka if Goku and Vegeta has 150 IQ then Vegetto has 300 IQ..
Im saying this because of the feats below:

Gotenks:
- Achieved SSJ 3, Goku mentioned, unlike SSJ or SSJ 2, that you had to tap into a power very deep inside you to achieve SSJ 3, so this didnt require any form of rage to achieve.

- Super Ghost Kamikaze attack.. Gotenks basically created life with Ki

- Galactic Donut and the other attacks like that, we have never seen attacks similar to that


Gogeta:

- That attack he did on Janemba, no idea what to call it but it completely disintegrated him

- SSJ 4 Gogeta can do magic and negated Omega Shenrons negative attack


Vegetto:

- That sword looking attack he did on Buuhan, its not some revolutionary attack but it was something new

- Killed Kamikaze with energy balls, no idea if i should add that here but it seemed pretty smart

- Shield to counter Buus absorbtion.


Its mostly Gotenks that has done the big feats but I got the feeling that Fusion gives you incredible strength and brains.
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+ Emmeth
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It makes some aspects of the fusion smarter and other aspects dumber. That's my opinion.
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

Combines battle intelligence [different ki moves]

Depreciates practical intellgience [ "Maybe we should kill this extremely dangerous guy before the fusion timer runs out. Nah"]
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

People often misunderstand that fusion is not simply two separate minds working together.

The fusion itself has their own consciousness that is obviously derived from both fusees, so the individual fusees sense of individuality is shut off, even if they're completely aware of what happens while fused.

We also need to consider the fusion's sense of individuality as legitimate considering that Goten and Trunks didn't remember anything at all while fused as Gotenks when Trunks screwed up when they tried to fuse for the first time. Regardless if this fusion was technically unsuccessful, that doesn't null the fact that Goten and Trunks individually were unaware of what was happening, while Gotenks had no problem referring to himself as an individual.

This sense of having individuality shut off is the reason why you don't have someone like Gotenks arguing with himself. He has his own mind, and sense of individuality. This also explains how you can have techniques that the Fusion has that the fusees don't, have never had, and don't have after the fusion is performed.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 21 2014, 05:28 PM.
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Hearts
Jan 21 2014, 03:34 PM
That sword looking attack he did on Buuhan, its not some revolutionary attack but it was something new.
You mean this tecknique:
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Vegetto
The technique of the mysterious strongest of warriors - Goku+Vegeta=Vegetto. The ki that comes from his hand extends, stabs through his opponent, then lifts them up.

Vol. 42 / Chp. 504
Vegetto has strength that is too overwhelming. Completely treating Majin Buu like a child, he fought as if he was enjoying himself by toying with Buu.


I think that's a very brilliant attack made by Vegito as well :p .
I'm pretty sure that the intelligence of the two fused warriors is combined in the result, I'm sure I read this somewere but can't quite remember :unsure: .
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Hearts
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supersaiyan1993
Jan 21 2014, 03:40 PM
Combines battle intelligence [different ki moves]

Depreciates practical intellgience [ "Maybe we should kill this extremely dangerous guy before the fusion timer runs out. Nah"]
The part where they dont instantly kill a dangerous opponent (which they actually do, except for Gotenks and SSJ 4 Gogeta).. is a personality thing and we know that their personality merges with eachother, what im wondering is if their IQ gets added on aswell. The fact that Gotenks created the Kamikaze Ghost attack, which has never been seen before in any form, would mean that Gotenks is incredibly brilliant and not something i can see any of the others being able to do or learn in their lifetime
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wolfie
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Hearts
Jan 21 2014, 05:52 PM
supersaiyan1993
Jan 21 2014, 03:40 PM
Combines battle intelligence [different ki moves]

Depreciates practical intellgience [ "Maybe we should kill this extremely dangerous guy before the fusion timer runs out. Nah"]
The part where they dont instantly kill a dangerous opponent (which they actually do, except for Gotenks and SSJ 4 Gogeta).. is a personality thing and we know that their personality merges with eachother, what im wondering is if their IQ gets added on aswell. The fact that Gotenks created the Kamikaze Ghost attack, which has never been seen before in any form, would mean that Gotenks is incredibly brilliant and not something i can see any of the others being able to do or learn in their lifetime
I'm not so sure, creating a technique has never shown to require great intelligences just great power.
Like buu turning things in to candy
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Professor Gohan
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I think it makes them smart deep down, but a big part of the fusion is making the two have an arrogant personality when they are bonded together; the arrogance showing more dominantly but the warrior is a genius in combat and brings it forth when the time is last second but right. A genius in disguise that's still an idiot.

That's what I get from fusion. It's a strange, alien technique so that helps me believe what I think.
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AvatarReiko
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Ketchupis Ultionis
Jan 21 2014, 05:21 PM
People often misunderstand that fusion is not simply two separate minds working together.

The fusion itself has their own consciousness that is obviously derived from both fusees, so the individual fusees sense of individuality is shut off, even if they're completely aware of what happens while fused.

We also need to consider the fusion's sense of individuality as legitimate considering that Goten and Trunks didn't remember anything at all while fused as Gotenks when Trunks screwed up when they tried to fuse for the first time. Regardless if this fusion was technically unsuccessful, that doesn't null the fact that Goten and Trunks individually were unaware of what was happening, while Gotenks had no problem referring to himself as an individual.

This sense of having individuality shut off is the reason why you don't have someone like Gotenks arguing with himself. He has his own mind, and sense of individuality. This also explains how you can have techniques that the Fusion has that the fusees don't, have never had, and don't have after the fusion is performed.
The dynamics of the fusion is a tricky one.

I do agree with you but remember when Vegetto turned back into Goku and Vegeta inside Buu, Goku remembered everything that had just happened. He stated ''Why'd the fusion fizzled out after *WE* took down the barrier down. This implies that Goku remembers all the events as Vegito, meaning he was part conscious at the time. Trunks and Goten also refer to Gotenks as 'We' as opposed to simply 'Gotenks' They stated 'This time lets start off as ssj3'' This implies that they both influence Gotenks to a small degree. This is further reinforced when Goten and Trunks desire to ascend to ssj3 fuel Gotenks into actually achieving it, even though it wasn't actually them but someone else entirely. However when Vegito is referring to Gohan, Goten and Trunks he states ''my sons'' as opposed to ''our sons'' He also refers to Goku and Vegeta as separate individuals when he states ''I guess putting Vegeto and Kakarot makes me Vegetto. He still acknowledges their existence. I
Edited by AvatarReiko, Jan 24 2014, 09:04 AM.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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AvatarReiko
Jan 24 2014, 09:03 AM
Ketchupis Ultionis
Jan 21 2014, 05:21 PM
People often misunderstand that fusion is not simply two separate minds working together.

The fusion itself has their own consciousness that is obviously derived from both fusees, so the individual fusees sense of individuality is shut off, even if they're completely aware of what happens while fused.

We also need to consider the fusion's sense of individuality as legitimate considering that Goten and Trunks didn't remember anything at all while fused as Gotenks when Trunks screwed up when they tried to fuse for the first time. Regardless if this fusion was technically unsuccessful, that doesn't null the fact that Goten and Trunks individually were unaware of what was happening, while Gotenks had no problem referring to himself as an individual.

This sense of having individuality shut off is the reason why you don't have someone like Gotenks arguing with himself. He has his own mind, and sense of individuality. This also explains how you can have techniques that the Fusion has that the fusees don't, have never had, and don't have after the fusion is performed.
The dynamics of the fusion is a tricky one.

I do agree with you but remember when Vegetto turned back into Goku and Vegeta inside Buu, Goku remembered everything that had just happened. He stated ''Why'd the fusion fizzled out after *WE* took down the barrier down. This implies that Goku remembers all the events as Vegito, meaning he was part conscious at the time. Trunks and Goten also refer to Gotenks as 'We' as opposed to simply 'Gotenks' They stated 'This time lets start off as ssj3'' This implies that they both influence Gotenks to a small degree. This is further reinforced when Goten and Trunks desire to ascend to ssj3 fuel Gotenks into actually achieving it, even though it wasn't actually them but someone else entirely. However when Vegito is referring to Gohan, Goten and Trunks he states ''my sons'' as opposed to ''our sons'' He also refers to Goku and Vegeta as separate individuals when he states ''I guess putting Vegeto and Kakarot makes me Vegetto. He still acknowledges their existence. I
That is true, but since this resulting fusion is essentially yourself, you wouldn't refer to them as a different person.
There's really no term to describe a counterpart other than "I" or "we".

The only other time that we see something similar to this is Piccolo and Kami, who weren't actually full beings individually. They referred to each other as seperate even though they are essentially the same person. However, I believe that the only one who would refer to them as "me" or "I" would be the Child of Katassu's child, or their original counterpart who split. Neither of them are The Child of Katassu's child, but neither of them aren't him either.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 24 2014, 05:48 PM.
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Aman741
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The Prince of All Saiyans/Debaters.

Yes, it does makes them smarter, when seen that Sayains love challenges, like when we love pizzas, we can't involve that as an IQ related issue, also by seeing the non-cannon movie, it has shown that both parties work together to focus on one thing, just like the movie 'Pacific Rim'.
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The Dragon Slayer
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Feel like a sir

I think that the fusion takes the intelligence of the smarter fusee.
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Aman741
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The Prince of All Saiyans/Debaters.

The Dragon Slayer
Jan 24 2014, 07:42 PM
I think that the fusion takes the intelligence of the smarter fusee.
It might be the possible case, but however seeing that fusion is where 2 = 1, the intelligence might be compromised or negotiated, somehow.

Similarly when they picked Trunks body as it has more durability then Goten.

Overall, I might say that Fusion is what two person fuse their 'ki' in one body, which of course needs to be one as if a person could not handle a certain ki, they might wear out themself, such as Goku when he first transformed.
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AA500
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Jan 21 2014, 05:52 PM
The part where they dont instantly kill a dangerous opponent (which they actually do, except for Gotenks and SSJ 4 Gogeta)
Gogeta was doing the same thing as Vegetto, he purposely played with Omega so he would use the Negative Karma Ball. After Omega did that, Gogeta was pretty serious.
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