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- Creationism vs Evolution in Public Schools
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| Creationism vs Evolution in Public Schools; The debate continues | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 19 2014, 09:57 PM (1,119,670 Views) | |
| Topographic Oceans | Jan 20 2014, 02:46 PM Post #31 |
 
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It has relevance to religion. If you want to teach Theology, you can't just randomly chose what should be taught and what shouldn't. Take old myths, for example. I doubt anyone today believes most of the them, and just take them as mere ways that old civilizations used to explain natural phenomena. Even them, if you are studying old religions, you can't skip the myths because they don't match with modern science; they are part of the thing you are studying. Old christianism was mostly build around that myth of creation, and you can's skip it because it's not relevent today. And why wouldn't someone be taught about Nessie in tourism? Creating tourist traps like that is a part of business, even if it is kinda retarded. You can't disregard something because you don't like it or because it's not relevant in modern times. |
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| * Mitas | Jan 20 2014, 03:02 PM Post #32 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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Exactly what Doc said. When learning about groups of people from the past (Vikings, Aztecs, Romans, Greeks etc), you are taught about their culture, what they believed, how they led their lives. The same thing with religious education: you should be taught about their beliefs, customs etc. I think Ninjaneer said it: early schooling covers multiple subjects in smaller detail, then as education progresses students begin to pick and choose the subjects that they are interested in. So just as younger children are educated on Music, Geography, History, Art, all subjects that you can choose to study further as your education progresses, so should they be educated on, and given the option to study, Religion. You seem to have a bias against religion that is making it hard for you to see the logic behind everyone's reasoning. We are not saying that religion should be taught as fact, as you seem to think, we are saying that it should be taught without bias and available as a choice. Like Pelador said: you don't have to believe what you are being taught, or to indeed enjoy learning about it. |
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| Hearts | Jan 20 2014, 03:56 PM Post #33 |
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Theres seem to be some misunderstanding here.. I see Creationism as belief that replaces Evolution, not just something that was said in the bible.. I do not think that Creationism should be taught as something that could have happened, Im fine with teaching that in the old days, people believed in it just like they teach us that they used to believe the world was flat. But in no way should Creationism be taught as something that could have happened, I dont even believe that you should teach Creationism and Evolution together and let the students choose.. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 20 2014, 04:39 PM Post #34 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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I don't think anyone here disagrees that it shouldn't be taught as fact. But I think teaching the idea is fine. The same as we learn about all faiths beliefs. As long as those beliefs aren't forced on anyone of course. Since ignorance leads to fear and hatred, I think it's good for everyone to have knowledge about different ideas and cultures. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 21 2014, 01:25 AM Post #35 |
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Because there's bigger and more important fish to fry. (Ha!) The teaching time available to schools is slim. I think that, for all the important and interesting lessons to be taught on the subject of religion, creationism (as in, the modern counter-explanation to evolutionary evidence) is pretty much the bottom of the pile. The basics of the creation stories? Yeah, sure, why not. This topic opens with "evolution vs creationism in schools"... This really isn't about ancient times or people, this is about people who forcibly twist Biblical facts until they sort of but not really counter contemporary evolutionary evidence.
Yeah, this. I agree.
I think you're misunderstanding my point and that stems from the misunderstandings highlighted above, but just to make myself clear... Religion is a huge part of human life and of course it has a place in schools. But it's own class? I don't see the point. I think discussing it within the other humanities would actually give the classes which are currently seen as a joke to the majority of students weight and value and give the beliefs of other cultures context. The problem with schooling in general is there simply isn't enough time for everything and priorities matter. "Creationism" is not simply the creation stories of various religions, it's the counter argument to evolution. It's modern interpretations of the Bible to explain stuff science already explained more successfully without resorting to tales of zombie magic. It has no place in schools because it has no weight, it has no historical value, it has no relevance to anything and it is, quite honestly, ridiculous. When people say kids should be taught a balance they're missing a huge point, where do you draw the line? Should we teach them about the flying spaghetti monster, too? Or about the afterlife in DBZ? Just think for a second how ridiculous it is to expect any human being to be 100% open minded and unbiased and then think how ridiculous it is to cram all this into a 1 hour lesson a week. And all the while liberal people with their hearts in the right place cave under the pressures of extremist creationists and give in to the idea that kids should be exposed to this s***, lets imagine all the minutes they could be studying something important, exercising in PE or being creative in art subjects. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 21 2014, 01:42 AM Post #36 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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It has relevance when you are learning about Christian beliefs. The same as the story of Muhammad has relelvence when learning about Islam and Guru Nanak has relevance when learning about Sikhism. I think religious studies/education is an underrated class. You learn so many different and interesting things about people's cultures and beliefs. Plus I'd probably find it easier to get on with someone who followed one of the religions I learned about because that understanding about their culture and lifestyle would be there. Science without art or music or literature and yes religion would have no inspiration or drive to move forward. It would die. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 21 2014, 10:43 AM Post #37 |
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You haven't responded to or challenged my point about priorities of what to teach or acknowledged to what creationism is. It's not relevant and I've explained why, you've not counter explained, only repeated. How does learning about the extremist idea of creationism help kids become more understanding of one another? As for the comment about science, I don't agree. The arts are important, but not to science. Science is beautiful and powerful in itself, it really is a wondrous thing and this idea that there needs to be more to life to make it beautiful needs to go away. That Dawkins quote is somewhat relevant "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" |
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| Hearts | Jan 21 2014, 10:58 AM Post #38 |
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Im not sure where you draw the line of "art" or things concerning art but i find the Universe truly beautiful, the sunrise is one of my favorite things, not because its pretty or anything but because i appreciate the fact that the glowing thing on the sky is a million times bigger than this planet and i can see it with my two eyes. But i agree, creationism is on the extreme side of christianity, creationism is basically taking The Book of Genesis literally and not figuratively. |
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| Rockman | Jan 21 2014, 11:40 AM Post #39 |
hoighty-toighty
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Can you not. You know exactly what I mean. |
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| * Mitas | Jan 21 2014, 12:23 PM Post #40 |
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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He did respond to your point though. He said that creationism is important when teaching about Christian beliefs. And that is not debatable. We are advocating teaching without bias, on both sides of the equation. It should not be taught as fact, just as we should not cherry pick what parts of the religion we teach based on what we see as important or believable. That is not your decision to make. For the love of God (no pun intended), how can you be arguing against the choice to study religion. There is no logical argument to make against someone having a choice to learn about something. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 21 2014, 01:12 PM Post #41 |
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It is debatable. Because it's not a core Christian belief and the school system has no time for things of such little importance like a small minority of extremists' beliefs. As for choosing to study it - sure. If it's an elective, sure. But RE was one of the standard classes when I went to school. You HAD to pick one of the humanities, RE, History or Geography - but even if you picked Geo, you HAD to take a short course in RE. If you picked RE, you had to do the short course in it ON TOP of the full course. It counted as a half credit. It was 1 hour a week. We had no time to learn anything, let alone about creationism. The course focused on philosophy, tbh. We went over the bare basics of the major religions. I'd also argue you literally cannot teach creationism without bias. You either teach it alongside evolution to be able to go "well they believe this, but this is what science has to say" and then you have to question why science is being brought into RE. There is NO TIME or place for teaching creationism in school, and even at elective higher studies it would not be something the course took much time to look at because it's extremism. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 21 2014, 01:47 PM Post #42 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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First of all you don't need to capitalise words in your post for extra emphasis. That's just awful. No onto the point, of course you can't teach about creationism without bias. We're human and our views are always going to have an effect on how we present information. Nevertheless a good teacher can still keep their personal views to one side and teach as impartially as human nature allows. You're correct about the creation story not being a core part of Christianity. It's background information. Which is why I think we only had one lesson on it. We spent a lot more time of Christian wedding procedures. But if you're learning about something then it's important to have information about it's origin story. You know we also learned about Aborigine creation stories and Hindu creation stories too. As I said before it's just background stuff that gives you an overall idea about some of the beliefs. No don't teach it alongside evolution. One is for science class and the other is for religious discussion. Evolution doesn't belong in a religious studies class the same as creation stories don't belong in a science class. You wouldn't get someone teaching art in a cooking class after all. You could try to argue that since evolution is the non believer's creation story then maybe it does belong in a class about creationism. I can see that point. But since it doesn't prescribe to any faith and the theories behind it are constantly being updated, I don't see how it would belong. It is technically a creation story in a sense but there's nothing religious about it. So leave it out of a religious education class. Edited by Pelador, Jan 21 2014, 01:52 PM.
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| Copy_Ninja | Jan 21 2014, 02:10 PM Post #43 |
Novacane for the pain
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The extent of my teaching of Creationism in High School (and I went to a Christian High School btw): "Okay so the Bible says that the earth was created in six days and on the seventh God rested. To be honest this is probably not factually accurate, the actual evolution of man took generations. It's just getting across the basic idea that God was the one who created the world." Pretty much it. That's all it needs to be, just a recognition that it says it in the bible. Also I do think having a class based on Religion isn't such a bad thing, though it should be done when kids are older and not quite as impressionable or naive. My RE class was a lot of fun and we had many debates and such. It helped encourage critical thinking which not enough classes in schools actually do. Plus whether you like it or not Religion still has a big impact in societies all around the world. Having everyone understand them properly is important I believe. |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 21 2014, 04:14 PM Post #44 |
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...Wait, w-what? Ya know what, patronising criticism of other's posting style is so unnecessarily rude and childish. |
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Jan 21 2014, 10:06 PM Post #45 |
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Creationism is the belief that a spiritual being called God created the entire universe, including humans.
Creationism isn't an extremist belief. It's actually the norm in America, and it helps kids to better understand the world that they live in since the majority of Americans believe in creationism. Your questions are very easy to explain. Creationism should be taught as others have said - in the proper setting. |
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