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Lets put a number on Vegetto
Topic Started: Jan 19 2014, 02:10 PM (1,257 Views)
Hearts
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So some people overestimate Vegetto, some underestimate him but ive never seen anyone actually run the numbers or even tried to theorise about his power, ive only seen people put Vegetto at 100x other people for no apparent reason other than that hes strong..
I want to, with peoples help, put an estimate on Vegetto.
So lets start with some basic numbers

SSJ Gotenks = 500
SSJ 3 Gotenks = 4000
Super Buu = 3500

SSJ 3 Gotenks had a clear advantage over Buu but Buu did get some hits on him, so i gave it a 1.16x boost.

Mystic Gohan = 5000
Buutenks = 7500

Gohan was stomping Super Buu but Buutenks was stomping Gohan

Buuccolo = 3550

Buuccolo had base Goten and Trunks and Piccolo inside him so he gets a small boost, Gohan is more than enough for this.

Buuhan = 8550

Buu absorbs Gohan and gains his power, my biggest issue with this is that 8700 is not a 1.2x gap from 7500, meaning a hypotehtical Buuhan wouldnt stomp a Buutenks, this feels wrong in my opinion.

Now the Vegetto part comes in, i need to make sure that SSJ Vegetto is stronger than Mystic Gohan, Super Buu and the base saiyans + Piccolo, we dont know how strong Base Vegetto is but we know that he turned SSJ to have a clear advantage over Buu. I believe SSJ Vegetto should have at the very least a 2x gap over Buuhan, first reason is what i said before, He wanted a big advantage over Buu, other reason would be that Buu is kinda haxed with regeneration and magic, Vegetto would probably need more than a 1.2x gap to even stomp him.

Vegetto = 360
SSJ Vegetto = 18000

Just a small reminder.. 50x is a huge boost so dont get off from the fact that it feels like Base Vegetto is too weak

EOZ Goku = 10
SSJ 3 EOZ Goku = 4000

I put SSJ 3 EOZ Goku as strong as SSJ 3 Gotenks, i dont think you guys will be bothered much by that.. but..

Kid Goku = 2000
SSJ 3 Kid Goku = 800000

Kid Goku shot through a dimension, this feat could NOT be done by SSJ Gotenks but was more than enough as SSJ 3 Goku, this would put Kid Goku somewhere between 1000-4000, i put him at 2000.. 400 x 2000 = 800000. And this is a problem because we know that Bebi Vegeta S2 was the strongest thing Goku has felt which puts HIM above SSJ Vegetto and not Goku.
So SSJ Vegetto must be above 800000 while Base Vegetto should be weaker than Buuhan. This isnt possible because:

Vegetto = 20000
SSJ Vegetto = 1000000

Putting Vegetto above SSJ 3 Kid Goku would be around maybe 1 million at least, that would put Base Vegetto at 20k, which is more than 2x Buuhan..

So this is where im at lost, did I go too far by going to GT? are my initial numbers completely wrong?
One thing i want to make clear, I dont like to put the gap between two people too much just because it "feels" that it should be high when its proven that 1.2x gap is enough to stomp.. its like this, I dont feel like giving SSJ God Goku a 1000x gap over SSJ 3 Goku when even a 10x or 20x gap would be more than enough to show his immense power.
So i would like it if you dont say things like "Mystic Gohan was at least 10x Buu" without any proof like "Hes so much stronger"
Edited by Hearts, Jan 19 2014, 06:16 PM.
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bloodstained euphy
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Of course the numbers would be f***ed up if you try to connect DBZ with Gt. Keep them separate, as in separate verses. Gt is pretty much a self-contained series that just borrows DBZ's characters and made alterations.

And I don't think Goku stomped Frieza with his 25% power advantage. What holds for lower powers doesn't necessarily hold for the massively higher ones.

You do not have to put Adult-Kid Goku that high, Gt's feats are immensely inconsistent. SSJ4 Goku got cut by glass for crying out loud! So base Gt Goku is stronger than his SSJ4 form? Lol!
DBZ was consistent with durability and the issue with destructive capability can easily be explained through AoE, energy control, and attack potency.
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+ Majin Vegeta
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Desteoying a dimension is not really a feat if you ask me, I believe you shouldn't Judje power levels like that :) , and like Bloustained said, GT is just taking the Z Charatcers and makes its own statements, at least that's what I get.
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Hearts
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Ignore the GT stuff then, what about the rest :P
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Then the numbers work very well :) , you're gaps and multipliers are fitting pretty well indeed. Except I would have Vegito at 5x times Buuhan, bit that's only my opinion and its as good as yours.
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There's some minor stuff I'm not really comfortable with regarding your list:

Buucolo: 3700 - Piccolo, Goten and Trunks alone would never give Buu as much as 200 in terms of power. To be honest, even 50 would be a stretch.

Other than that, using 50x for Super Saiyan all the time. It's your right, but notice that according to Babidi's measuring method Goku SSj had 3000 Kili, while Yakon had 800. Goku dodged blows from Yakon in Base. That he did, go read the manga if you're not convinced. Goku would never be able to dodge a blow from someone with a power of 800 if his own power was 60. Sorry, but ain't happening. To me this is a very clear sign that the multiplier for Super Saiyan has fallen dramatically once the Base powers increased to a certain level.

EDIT: And you really shouldnt' bring GT into this. Such stuff wasn't really thought of when the series was being made, it's full of horrible inconsistencies as far as power scaling goes.
Edited by Xfing, Jan 19 2014, 05:57 PM.
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Yeah that's the only think that I might change in you're list, there powers are next to nothing and also, after this you have a difference if 1.2x times bettwen Buuhan and Buutenks, which is t exactly the case :D
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Xfing
Jan 19 2014, 05:55 PM
There's some minor stuff I'm not really comfortable with regarding your list:

Buucolo: 3700 - Piccolo, Goten and Trunks alone would never give Buu as much as 200 in terms of power. To be honest, even 50 would be a stretch.

Other than that, using 50x for Super Saiyan all the time. It's your right, but notice that according to Babidi's measuring method Goku SSj had 3000 Kili, while Yakon had 800. Goku dodged blows from Yakon in Base. That he did, go read the manga if you're not convinced. Goku would never be able to dodge a blow from someone with a power of 800 if his own power was 60. Sorry, but ain't happening. To me this is a very clear sign that the multiplier for Super Saiyan has fallen dramatically once the Base powers increased to a certain level.

EDIT: And you really shouldnt' bring GT into this. Such stuff wasn't really thought of when the series was being made, it's full of horrible inconsistencies as far as power scaling goes.
I do belive the mutiplier gose down, but thats not proof

first off we KNOW goku is not anywhere close to 3000 in power level, whichmeans that their version of power is diffreint then ours

So it can still be times 50 in ours but only 5 i theirs becuse theirs takes longer to gain
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Well, I can see that a 10x gap would fit pretty well. It would also fit with GT smoothly.
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The power readings are different but the relationships between them remains the same. 3000 Kili is 3,75x larger than 800 Kili in the same manner as 3,750,000 BP units is 3,75x larger than 1,000,000 BP units.
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In my personal opinion, 10x for Super Saiyan is not a bad figure. Still, that incident with Babidi convinces me it should be around 5x. On the other hand, the SSj2 multiplier, which is given as 2x, should be much larger. Since most villains by that point in the story are fought at a level beyond SSj1, this would also serve to even things out. I think SSj2 should figure at 5-8x SSj1.
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Hearts
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@Xfing:
the Kili powersystem had a certain mathematical system that made sense, i forgot what it was... but its not linear and it wasnt exactly exponential either... either way you shouldnt think of the Kili system as a normal system.

And i agree, Buuccolo should be 3550 at most actually, but its not like it matters atm :P

@Vegeta SSj4:
What do you mean that my powerlevels are next to nothing? :o
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Hearts
Jan 19 2014, 06:13 PM
@Xfing:
the Kili powersystem had a certain mathematical system that made sense, i forgot what it was... but its not linear and it wasnt exactly exponential either... either way you shouldnt think of the Kili system as a normal system.

And i agree, Buuccolo should be 3550 at most actually, but its not like it matters atm :P

@Vegeta SSj4:
What do you mean that my powerlevels are next to nothing? :o
No, lol you're numbers are great, Goten Trunks and Piccolos power is next to nothing :D .
So the increase of 200 sounds pretty generous on there side if you ask me.
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It's hard to get a BP/Kili reading for Vegetto, but it would be pretty easy with random numbers.
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Hearts
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supersaqer
Jan 19 2014, 06:16 PM
It's hard to get a BP/Kili reading for Vegetto, but it would be pretty easy with random numbers.
I know, but i want to put an end to things were people put Vegetto at 1000x Goku and SSJ God at 10000x Goku and so on and so on.. People are putting powerlevels at much higher than they need to be, so i would like to put an estimate on his power



Also, ive changed Buccolo to 3550 :P
Edited by Hearts, Jan 19 2014, 06:19 PM.
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