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How do you have SSJ work in regards to traning?
Topic Started: Jan 19 2014, 04:00 AM (527 Views)
wolfie
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Most of us use a multiple for each form, what those are can varry greatly but we agree that it improves power in a way few other things can. I my self have always held the belief SSJ is X50 + any gains after achieving ssj.
Or something like that, basscily, anytime they train in ssj the mutplie may stay the same but they also get a base boost in the form depending on how much they trained, other wise I've never really gotten the point of training at ssj since it be harder to make the gains where you could train lower and the just transform
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

I just keep it at a 50 times multiplier. No real need to change it.
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wolfie
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jan 19 2014, 04:11 AM
I just keep it at a 50 times multiplier. No real need to change it.
So is there any real reason to train in SSJ then? other then "mastering" it?
I mean as far as I can tell ssj levels is by power, as long as you have enough power (and emotion) you can transform, so training in form is not required.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

I honestly wouldn't think so, unless progression as a SSJ is more effective for some reason, which it could be.
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TheGmGoken
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jan 19 2014, 04:20 AM
I honestly wouldn't think so, unless progression as a SSJ is more effective for some reason, which it could be.
I think when they train in SSJ(Seeing as we don't see them train in SSJ2 or SSJ3) they do this as it's less energy wasting(As they master SSJ) and has quicker and better results. The few times they train in SSJ2 or SSJ3 is either to get used to the form or to test your maximum power.
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wolfie
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I think a huge part of that is ssj2 and 3 where trained "before" we come back

goku had already gone ssj3
IIRC Vegeta went ssj2 durring the peace form cell to buu
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* Ketchup Revenge
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I don't believe in multipliers. I used to, but don't now.
There's several reasons to this.

1) If Super Saiyan is indeed simply a multiplier, there's no reason for them to train in Super Saiyan other than to master the form. And since we almost always see Super Saiyans training in Super Saiyan (especially after mastery), this doesn't make sense if the only way to increase is to get stronger in base.

2) Vegeta states that Saiyan power can't be calculated, and even though Vegeta is arrogant, there's no evidence that he lied. The evidence to Vegeta being right lies in Gero's inability to predict how strong Goku would be, in addition to being unable to calculate how strong both Goku and Vegeta were when compared to their bases. For example, he thought Yamcha was Goku. If Saiyan power truly can't be calculated or predicted, than a basic multiplier for Super Saiyan goes against that claim.

3) Other evidence to a multiplier not existing is there being no evidence for it in anything outside guides. Particularly later in the series, there doesn't seem to be a massive difference between the ability of a Saiyan in base when compared to their Super Saiyan form. The really noticeable difference can be seen with the higher forms of Super Saiyan.

These three things to me suggest that Super Saiyan can be trained and increased independently from base.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 19 2014, 05:34 AM.
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wolfie
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I think multipliers work in the sense the power you gain in the form is easily more then double your current so its far more easy to use multiples to explain it. I believe there is a cold hard number added every-time you transform but for the most part I round it down or up to the nearest neat number for difficulty sake, and instead of guessing that number multipliers help with it
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bloodstained euphy
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IMO, training in a Super Saiyan form is to attain these:

  • Faster and easier transformation to the trained form
  • Higher chances and easier path to attaining the next form
  • Strain reduction
  • Greater ability to pump more power into the form(such as with ASSJ and USSJ)

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+ Majin Vegeta
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I believe the multiplier itshelf works very well, training in SSJ has more effective gains because the user gets strained by the form, and in order to sustain it he's body receives a bigger difficulty, imagine wearing a 50ibs weight vest or something moving around with it and training will make you stronger at least that's how I view it :)
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* Ketchup Revenge
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bloodstained euphy
Jan 19 2014, 02:49 PM
IMO, training in a Super Saiyan form is to attain these:

  • Faster and easier transformation to the trained form
  • Higher chances and easier path to attaining the next form
  • Strain reduction
  • Greater ability to pump more power into the form(such as with ASSJ and USSJ)

1). There's no evidence that it's any more difficult to transform when the form is new to when you've known it for a while. Goku transformed just as quickly the very first time as when he did at any other time in the series. The only extended difficulty he was shown to have was when we first see him as a Super Saiyan 3. However, this one is also stated to have a lot more strain as well. In addition to this, we don't really know the parameters of SSj3 in a normal environment or situation.

2) No one knew about anything stronger than Super Saiyan when we originally see them training in Super Saiyan, so they aren't going to train to reach the next form if they thought it didn't exist. In addition to this, Goku was convinced after Super Saiyan got mastered that was it for him getting any stronger. Then of course, he saw Gohan reach an entirely different form.

3) There's no evidence that anyone knew about strain reduction that prior to Goku's brainstorm to master Super Saiyan. The strain itself wasn't even mentioned until then. And certainly with Goku being a Super Saiyan so long, he probably would've noticed if there was a strain reduction, prior to him training in the ROSAT. Same with Vegeta, and specifically Trunks, who (by all sense of the word when we see him) had been Super Saiyan for the longest of the three of them.

4) This I won't entirely disagree with, but that kind-of nulls the point that you originally made about strain reduction. ASSj and USSj only heighten the strain. It doesn't make sense for them to train to reduce strain if they're simply going to transform into states that are even worse with it.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 19 2014, 08:26 PM.
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+ Kaboom
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I figure that training as a Super Saiyan one way or another grants extreme power growth. The problem is that it also has big downsides that normally prevent you from taking advantage of that. Power drain, extra bodily stress, general restlessness, etc.

Which would be why Goku and Gohan made such huge gains in the Room of Spirit and Time. They conditioned their bodies to become used to Super Saiyan and eliminated all that extra stress and energy waste, to the point where they could train in the form just as easily as in their normal states. So the combination of Super Saiyan plus the harsh conditions of the RoSaT netted them some huge power increases, far more in one year than Goku achieved in the three years before the Androids' arrival.
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Divine Saiya-jin
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Yeah I conclude that training in SSJ increased power much more than base. That and sparring training rather individual training brings much more power. Only reason to explain why Vegeta reacted like that to 50% Goku on Korins tower.
Edited by Divine Saiya-jin, Jan 20 2014, 12:20 AM.
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