petewentz

Jan 17 2014, 06:39 PM

Manga, then guidebooks then Toriyama's word. I just got done reading a whole essay about authorial intent and how it cannot be used to logically discern events in a story that have already been established. This is why I place him at the end of my "canon chain"

Here's the thing; just because the guidebooks have a few mistakes doesn't mean they're all inaccurate. It doesn't mean because they got something wrong you throw them all out. They are there to clarify things, not make out right declarations or create a new story line. Their sole purpose is to help readers understand the manga. The manga takes precedence but you can't just go "well, this is wrong in the guidebooks therefore IT'S ALL WRONG"....that's a logically fallacy. I think association fallacy.

Kamikaze Pyro

Jan 17 2014, 07:29 PM

petewentz

Jan 17 2014, 06:39 PM

Manga, then guidebooks then Toriyama's word. I just got done reading a whole essay about authorial intent and how it cannot be used to logically discern events in a story that have already been established. This is why I place him at the end of my "canon chain"

Here's the thing; just because the guidebooks have a few mistakes doesn't mean they're all inaccurate. It doesn't mean because they got something wrong you throw them all out. They are there to clarify things, not make out right declarations or create a new story line. Their sole purpose is to help readers understand the manga. The manga takes precedence but you can't just go "well, this is wrong in the guidebooks therefore IT'S ALL WRONG"....that's a logically fallacy. I think association fallacy.

You know, you bring up a good point on author intent, but the thing I find is that when the author continues to repeat a specific sentiment multiple times over the span of a few years, and nothing in his original work would contradict it, there's no reason not to take it as fact.

If the author had written Firefox being clearly stronger than Google Chrome in his original work, then five years later came out with an interview saying he'd thought of Chrome as the strongest, then there'd be justification for not accepting that passage since it directly contradicted what was blatantly laid out previously with no real logic behind it.

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You know, you bring up a good point on author intent, but the thing I find is that when the author continues to repeat a specific sentiment multiple times over the span of a few years, and nothing in his original work would contradict it, there's no reason not to take it as fact.

TheDoc

Jan 17 2014, 07:38 PM

Kuririn being the strongest human wasn't only stated in interview. It's also stated in the manga. Toriyama's word is not holy, but when we have a statement by him and a statement in the manga, it's probably enough proof.

There's not much going for Tenshinhan, really, besides his haxed Kikoho.

Itachi

Jan 17 2014, 08:05 PM

I don't see how you can place it lower than guidebooks. Word of the staff vs word of the author. Doesn't make sense.

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“This Daizenshuu, the 7th and final one, is a huge Dragon Ball encyclopedia. I think the staff who make these books always have a rough time of it, but this one looked even more hellish than usual. They really did a great job. I’m ridiculously forgetful, so despite being the author there’s lots of stuff even I don’t know anymore. It was often quite a nuisance, and I think having this encyclopedia around when the series was still running would have really helped me out. Darn it all.

Anyway, my thanks to the staff, and to all Dragon Ball fans.”
– Akira Toriyama

Sky Hedgehogian Maestro

Jan 17 2014, 09:10 PM

Didn't Toriyama recently forget C18 is blonde and confuse SSJ2 with SSJ3, for BoG? And his staff had to correct him?
He has the memory of... Well, me!