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| Theroy about Trunks and Goten fusion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 9 2014, 09:03 PM (3,219 Views) | |
| * Ketchup Revenge | Jan 10 2014, 02:42 AM Post #46 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I can see that, but by that logic, Goku himself was also raised away from his Saiyan heritage, and he was apparently violent up until he whacked his head. I guess you could argue that a healthy Saiyan brain craves violence, and Goku's brain was damaged during his fall, and that his natural animosity was somehow gone. However, this could also be used to supplement the argument that the mild-natured hybrids actually are more closely relative to Human nature than previously thought. Doesn't bode well for "hybrids are more Saiyan than Human" argument. |
 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jan 10 2014, 02:44 AM Post #47 |
魔王子
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I think the notion that they're more Saiyajin than Human comes from the fact that they can turn into Super Saiyajins
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jan 10 2014, 02:45 AM.
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jan 10 2014, 02:46 AM Post #48 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I agree, but becoming a Super Saiyan doesn't supplement the fact that Saiyans that aren't Super Saiyan are just as genetically pure as another Saiyan who is a Super Saiyan. In other words, someone who can become a Super Saiyan isn't more genetically pure than someone who can't. There's no real evidence that Super Saiyan ability is even related to genetics. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 10 2014, 02:52 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| petewentz | Jan 10 2014, 03:12 AM Post #49 |
suiteheart
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It's not canon, but Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. turned Super Saiyan despite being like 1/8th or 1/16th saiyan, I forget the heritage there. doesn't matter as it's definitely not canon but ya know...for the sake of argument lol |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jan 10 2014, 03:39 AM Post #50 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Both Goku and Vegeta Jr have an unspecified heritage. All that's officially stated about them is that Goku Jr is descended from Pan, and Vegeta jr Is descended from Trunks (I believe). But either way, it's pointless as you already mentioned because they're non-canon characters. |
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| wolfie | Jan 10 2014, 03:41 AM Post #51 |
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The problem here is your assuming that all that power and the ultimate form comes form being a hybrid Tell me what are some key signs that Gohan has that power? having huge boost of power anytime he is mad pletny of times trunks and goten get mad they NEVER show this power, why dose Gohan have them and they dont?> Answer is simple THEY dont have that type of power, they may be strong but they DONT have the ability gohan dose, where he gets mad and can improve his power big time They may very well have huge potinatil but gohans was a WHOLE other thing, nothing to do with being a hybird Other wise Goten and trunks would get boost form being mad, they dont, ever. Ultamat gohan is GOHANS true power, no where at all says all of that power comes just form being a hybrid he was different form all the rest, none of the others show the power he did The idea that goten and trunks have the same power is contradicted many times, maybe the reason they go ssj 1 is cause of hybrid, but then why could gohan not? maybe becuse Gohan power is NOT from being a hybird First future trunks has nothing of the sort, then Goten and trunks dont get the boost form being mad AND anytime at all he has someone help him with it they remark how UNIUQE it is, not that "oh you have a strong blood line" but more of "one of a kind" I can buy the SSJ form thing, but the idea that Gohans power is only for being a half breed is wrong, none of the others have the abillty he dose, which he had since being born Edited by wolfie, Jan 10 2014, 03:50 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Jan 10 2014, 09:19 PM Post #52 |
 
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Goku Jr. was 1/64th Saiyan, since Pan was his great-great-grandmother. On the other hand, Vegeta Jr. is unknown. To add more fuel to the fire:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111103165624/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz02.php?m=04&id=grow_up#link http://web.archive.org/web/20111104071121/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz04.php?m=02&id=race#link http://web.archive.org/web/20110925040604/http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz07.php?m=03&id=character_s-u#son_goten 
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 10 2014, 09:46 PM.
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| petewentz | Jan 10 2014, 11:22 PM Post #53 |
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suiteheart
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^^^^^ DAAAAAAAANNNNNGGGGGG. That should put to rest any doubt. That's pretty much #GG... This part in particular interests me;
This directly backs up an idea I had a few pages ago about saiyan genes not necessarily being dominant over human genes but rather complimentary of them. Great post Kamikaze Pyro, you win the internet again, A+...gold star for you. Edited by petewentz, Jan 10 2014, 11:22 PM.
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| Pride | Jan 10 2014, 11:57 PM Post #54 |
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I don't believe for a second that Goten and Trunks were born without tails. I'm pretty sure AT just forgot about the whole oozaru thing.
Edited by Pride, Jan 11 2014, 12:02 AM.
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| wolfie | Jan 11 2014, 12:22 AM Post #55 |
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I think you misunderstand, I'm not saying they dont have power at all, just that honestly it's all a huge plot hole Goten and trunks can transform to ssj at 7-6-8 cause of being hybrids, gohan could not in till 11 or so, and he was in fights for his life daily, it was not "easy for him" Futrue trunks shows none of this ever at all. And then the only one with a clear case of it is cleary shown using this poiwer anytime he gets mad to an insase point, when goten and gohan get mad on screen\in the manga they NEVER get the boost he did In short no matter how you slice it, the logic dose not work, at the end of the day you cant explain it UNLESS you put gohans hidden pottional (being stronger then ssk3 goku) as him alone the genes sure helped, but since he is the only one shown ever getting boasts form getting mad he is the only one who has it So hybrids? sure huge boosts but that's NOT Ultimate gohan, gohans power is his and his alone, he is not a SSJ prodigies, he is stronger then ssj's goten and trunks do not necessary have that power so again, one more time Goten and trunks powerful? sure, anyone can see that SSJ prodige? yep, at age 7,8, etc gohan? nope, he had to work hard for it, not the same boost as those two, cause his power is different Gohan being stronger then any ssj? sure, he is, after the unlock Gohans power being a hybrid thing? no proof, he was born with a tail, they where not he gets power form being mad, they do not nothing about them matches so you CANT say they have the same power, you can say Gohan DOSE have their power, but it dont mean they have his he did not level up the same way they did, showed non of the same signs as they did they do NOT have the same power. Honestly it comes down to AT's bad memory, which is understandable. At the end of the day there is no way to explain it besides that Gohan has more then just being a hybird going for him. This is backed up by everyone and everything in the thing, no one else is ever shown with Gohans powers, he never gets the power goten and trunks do, he has to work hard to transform, they did not he gets insane boosts form being mad, they dont So once again Ultmate Gohan is a powerful form that is only for Gohan, its his true potential, one that no one, or almost no one else can reach. the other half breeds do NOT show the same power they power up at different times, they power up in different ways, they dont level the way he dose. Trunks and Goten may be able to go SSJ, fine, dont mean they can go ultmate and take on Goku ssj3 Edited by wolfie, Jan 11 2014, 12:29 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Jan 11 2014, 12:31 AM Post #56 |
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Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P10.1-5 Context: Elder Kaioshin explains his ‘ability’ Elder Kaioshin: “With my psychic powers, I can take the hidden power which anyone has, no matter how amazing a master they may be, and draw it wa~~ay, wa~~ay out above their limits. Ehehehehe…Have you ever heard of an ability like that?” Kaioshin and Kibito: “Oooh!” Goku: “Wh-what?...Ain’t that the kind of ability you hear about fairly often?” Elder Kaioshin: “Wh-what are you talking about…?! Above their limits! Above! There de~~efinitely isn’t anyone else that incredible! [ ] Hey, you over there, you were the one who pulled the sword out, right? Come over here a little. If someone could pull that sword out and swing it around, then once I get through with them they’ll de~~efinitely be able to become the best in the universe.” |
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| wolfie | Jan 11 2014, 12:36 AM Post #57 |
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This to me proves my point, Goku could get unlocked, it dont mean he will supass ultimate gohan the boost is directly connected to hidden power, Gohan form day one was stated to have had never before seen hidden power. Gohans hidden power was also directly link to his anger, Goten and trunks get mad plenty of times aginst buu and others and they NEVER show this power. Gohans hidden power is one a of a kind, I'm sure hybird gohan with hidden power is strong then gohan with only hidden power but that dont mean goten or trunks have anything close to gohans once again, hidden power is the key here, Gohans was remarked as "one of a kind" by them all, even the old man him self, he pulled the sword out, there is no proof anyone else can even touch his level. Do you agree Gohans hidden power comes out when mad? why do trunks and goten not have this? For some odd reason everyone keeps ignoring this question Edited by wolfie, Jan 11 2014, 12:39 AM.
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| petewentz | Jan 11 2014, 12:50 AM Post #58 |
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suiteheart
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Read KP's post, not mine. It pretty much states, multiple times with multiple sources, that saiyan hybrids possess more potential than a full blooded saiyan. Here; "As a Saiyan and Earthling half-breed, Gohan possesses dormant power that surpasses that of a Saiyan." and before you go "well Gohan is SPECIAL" then there is this; "Goten has gigantic hidden power within his small body. Like Goku and Gohan, borrowing strength from his anger he can change into a Super Saiyan " pretty much laid out for you. Go and read Kamikaze's post directly above mine, the one where I said GG, and if you read all of that and still believe that hybrids don't possess more potential than full blooded saiyans you're being willfully stubborn. Edited by petewentz, Jan 11 2014, 12:52 AM.
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| wolfie | Jan 11 2014, 01:22 AM Post #59 |
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One problem, we see goten get mad at buu NOTHING happens once again, your IGNORING facts, they can sya to the cows come home he got "angry to go ssj" the fact is its not shown in the battle. They say like him, so why is it that anytime they get mad they dont get a boost? don't skip it, dont ignore it, answer the question, your not going to, your going to keep posting this over and over and over refusing to admit that even if they claim he has the same power they clearly show he dose not. If they had the same power then they would of gotten a boost aginst buu at LEAST (should of been way more boasts in reality) they NEVER did they got mad plenty they never skyrocketed like gohan did Heres wgar we know A. hybirds get some sort of boost (nothing says its ultmate form gohan shows) B. gohans form is directly link to his anger, goten and trunks, while they claim used it to go SSJ never went thorugh half of what gohan did, and they get it in almost half the time. C. when they get mad, NOTHING happens, gohan could eaisly get ten times as powerful in most cases, this right here is ALL the proof I need D. if goten and trunks really did "get mad" to go ssj what on earth got them so mad? gohan by the age of four saw his dad die, left alone for a year, see more friends die, slavery, and genocide being committed over and over what on God's green earth did goten and trunks get so mad about but in a way NO ONE even knew they could go SSJ? While Gohan spent almost their whole life times (4 to 11) before going ssj? They went ssj faster yes He did it by hard work was not "easy for him" as this book claims it is for Hybrids, if it was gohan would be able to go ssj just like them, he cant cause he dose not have the same power and they dont have the same as him Gohan powr linked to anger Goten and trunks get mad and they get no such boost their whole time aginst buu Goten and trunks dont have the same powers as gohan, they are strong for sure, but nothing to say they can outclass evreyone else The book says that, the original work never shows this. Edited by wolfie, Jan 11 2014, 01:37 AM.
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| petewentz | Jan 11 2014, 02:47 AM Post #60 |
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suiteheart
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We see Trunks get mad and send Fat Buu flying... http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+39&page=87 As far as I know there's never an instance where Goten attacks any form of Buu; anytime he does he's always fused into Gotenks before hand...so what is your point? Quit harping on this "we don't see Goten get mad and do something.." And that point is still irrelevant, just because the SSj kids don't manifest their potential through anger like Gohan does doesn't mean they still don't have more potential than full blooded saiyans...this is what the Daizenshuu states multiple times and the manga as well. I repeat the claim; half saiyan half human hybrids possess more potential than full blooded saiyans. To say otherwise is willful stubbornness.
See above; we don't ever see Goten even attack Buu, yet we do see Trunks get angry and send Buu flying. It's right there for you to view yourself. The claim isn't really that Goten and Trunks get rage boosts, so I don't wanna keep arguing that because you'll just go "how come we don't see Future Trunks have anything like that..." and other rhetoric. The claim is that hybrid saiyans have more potential than full blooded saiyans. This is backed up by the kids amazing power, Gohan's amazing power, manga statements about their potential and the Daizenshuu while saying otherwise is backed up with no evidence. Since all the evidence points to hybrid saiyans having more potential than full blooded saiyans, how about you disprove that with some actual evidence? Saying "we don't see Goten get mad!" isn't gonna count because like I said, just because the SSj kids don't manifest their potential through their anger doesn't mean they still don't have more potential than a full blooded saiyan. Everything in the manga and supplementary material supports this view. You don't have any evidence besides saying the SSj kids don't get angry.
Again, see the linked scan. And p.s I'm done arguing that the SSj kids "get anger boosts", because the argument that hybrids have more potential doesn't hinge on it. I'm repeating myself to make sure you understand; just because they don't manifest their potential through their anger doesn't mean they don't have more potential than full blooded saiyans. To say otherwise is just stubbornness, honestly. |
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