base Saiyans vs Piccolo

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base Saiyans vs Piccolo
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 2 2014, 04:39 PM (5,241 Views)
+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 11:45 PM Post #91
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	SuperSaiyan2 Jan 12 2014, 11:43 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:34 PM SuperSaiyan2 Jan 12 2014, 11:24 PM Quote: Ah, you're right. Piccolo being useless against the same power that Vegeta is comfortably ahead of, that's inferior to the Cell Jrs., is overwritten by him standing up at the end of the fight. Cell juniors are equal to Vegeta, not stronger. I don't care about the conflicting Daizenshuu entires, but the one concerning them being on par with Vegeta makes more sense. So Piccolo could be able to do reasonably well against a Jr while still being completely useless against Cell. Not seeing your point. Cell Jr. >= Vegeta (RST2) > Cell (@Super Vegeta) > Piccolo (RST) If you want to take "comparable" loosely, sure, they're "comparable." Piccolo doesn't need to be weaker than Cell @ Vegeta. Goku complimented Piccolo when he figured Cell was suppressed. He knew Cell was holding back a large quantity of power, hence why he went to examine him. Piccolo is a pretty smart guy. He met Cell in battle, and watched Semi-Perfect Cell from the lookout. He saw during both transformations that Cell was holding back at some point, and was never outputting his full power. So I'm pretty sure Piccolo could be considering Cell's estimated power when saying he would be useless. That's a lot of assumptions you have there.
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SSJ	Jan 12 2014, 11:47 PM Post #92
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:45 PM SuperSaiyan2 Jan 12 2014, 11:43 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:34 PM SuperSaiyan2 Jan 12 2014, 11:24 PM Quote: Ah, you're right. Piccolo being useless against the same power that Vegeta is comfortably ahead of, that's inferior to the Cell Jrs., is overwritten by him standing up at the end of the fight. Cell juniors are equal to Vegeta, not stronger. I don't care about the conflicting Daizenshuu entires, but the one concerning them being on par with Vegeta makes more sense. So Piccolo could be able to do reasonably well against a Jr while still being completely useless against Cell. Not seeing your point. Cell Jr. >= Vegeta (RST2) > Cell (@Super Vegeta) > Piccolo (RST) If you want to take "comparable" loosely, sure, they're "comparable." Piccolo doesn't need to be weaker than Cell @ Vegeta. Goku complimented Piccolo when he figured Cell was suppressed. He knew Cell was holding back a large quantity of power, hence why he went to examine him. Piccolo is a pretty smart guy. He met Cell in battle, and watched Semi-Perfect Cell from the lookout. He saw during both transformations that Cell was holding back at some point, and was never outputting his full power. So I'm pretty sure Piccolo could be considering Cell's estimated power when saying he would be useless. That's a lot of assumptions you have there. 1. Always assume full power.



+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 11:50 PM Post #93
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Was it that bad that you decided to nuke your argument?
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SSJ	Jan 12 2014, 11:53 PM Post #94
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Assume full power Why would we not assume full power when Piccolo says he is useless. It is obvious that Cell is suppressing considering that Goku doesn't even think he can beat Cell with his FP.



+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 11:54 PM Post #95
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	SuperSaiyan2 Jan 12 2014, 11:53 PM Assume full power Why would we not assume full power when Piccolo says he is useless. It is obvious that Cell is suppressing considering that Goku doesn't even think he can beat Cell with his FP. Assume Cell's at his best like Piccolo.
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SSJ	Jan 12 2014, 11:55 PM Post #96
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:54 PM SuperSaiyan2 Jan 12 2014, 11:53 PM Assume full power Why would we not assume full power when Piccolo says he is useless. It is obvious that Cell is suppressing considering that Goku doesn't even think he can beat Cell with his FP. Assume Cell's at his best like Piccolo. That doesn't make sense when Toriyama makes it obvious a few pages later that Cell is NOT at his best.



+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 11:59 PM Post #97
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Wait, don't tell me. You know what Piccolo's estimate was, assuming he had one?
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SSJ	Jan 13 2014, 12:01 AM Post #98
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:59 PM Wait, don't tell me. You know what Piccolo's estimate was, assuming he had one? Can't say I do. All I know is it would be a lot higher than what Cell showed against Vegeta. Look at Semi Cell. He went from being possibly weaker than SSJ Vegeta, to being considered relevant to ASSJ Vegeta. Why wouldn't the same happen with the new Cell? Cell does not form with his full power after a transformation.



+ Pyrus	Jan 13 2014, 02:23 AM Post #99
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	SuperSaiyan2 Jan 13 2014, 12:01 AM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:59 PM Wait, don't tell me. You know what Piccolo's estimate was, assuming he had one? Can't say I do. All I know is it would be a lot higher than what Cell showed against Vegeta. Look at Semi Cell. He went from being possibly weaker than SSJ Vegeta, to being considered relevant to ASSJ Vegeta. Why wouldn't the same happen with the new Cell? Cell does not form with his full power after a transformation. So in essence you're guessing, which is what I've been pointing out the entire time.
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petewentz	Jan 13 2014, 02:28 AM Post #100
suiteheart Posts: 283 Group: Member Member #10,603 Joined: December 20, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Mononoke-Hime What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragonball	Kamikaze Pyro; turn on your PMs so we can discuss the debate tournament. Also, assumptions are not good. Ever. My contribution to the thread. There has to be evidence to make an assumption work... Like in FF8 dealing with Ultimecia; assume that the history of the game is remembered. There is evidence that it is by her dialog "So you're the legendary SeeD destined to defeat me" meaning Ultimecia knows that a SeeD from the past is destined to defeat her. It's never outright stated that history is recorded in the game, but we can assume it is based upon some evidence with statements... Same approach in DB. Rambling, don't really take this post too seriously; it's mostly to get KP to turn on his PMs for this debate!
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SSJ	Jan 13 2014, 02:59 AM Post #101
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 13 2014, 02:23 AM SuperSaiyan2 Jan 13 2014, 12:01 AM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 11:59 PM Wait, don't tell me. You know what Piccolo's estimate was, assuming he had one? Can't say I do. All I know is it would be a lot higher than what Cell showed against Vegeta. Look at Semi Cell. He went from being possibly weaker than SSJ Vegeta, to being considered relevant to ASSJ Vegeta. Why wouldn't the same happen with the new Cell? Cell does not form with his full power after a transformation. So in essence you're guessing, which is what I've been pointing out the entire time. An educated guess.



+ Majin Vegeta	Jan 13 2014, 02:21 PM Post #102
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Jan 12 2014, 11:36 PM I don't see what's so hard to believe about the Cell Juniors holding back. The humans aren't dead so they're clearly messing with them. Only Vegeta and Trunks stand a chance as pointed out by Cell. I'm a strong believer of this to, bug it still doesn't prove much. The only reason I would assume that Piccolo>Base Saiyans is because of logic, I can't see Gohan in Base been anywere close to the likes of ASSJ Vegeta, and Base Saiyans from Buu arc are weaker than him except Goku who's barely up ahead of him.
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


+ Emmeth	Jan 13 2014, 06:03 PM Post #103
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	I don't think anyone questioned if Cell Jrs held back or not. Spoiler: click to toggle The third panel shows Cell giving his children the go ahead to kill the Zet-Senshi, which is directly translated from the original manga, iirc. That's the clearest indication that they were indeed holding back.
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+ Pyrus	Jan 13 2014, 09:14 PM Post #104
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P13.5 Context: after Goku says there’s other people to fight Cell besides him Cell: “It’s the same thing. Vegeta and Trunks may have raised their power, but they should still be inferior to you…” What do you guys think of this? SuperSaiyan2 Jan 13 2014, 12:01 AM An educated guess. If that's what you want to call it, feel free. Edited by Pyrus, Jan 13 2014, 09:15 PM.
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+ Majin Vegeta	Jan 14 2014, 02:56 PM Post #105
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Well what can we think? I guess that makes Vegeta and Trunks been somewere close to Gokus power, personally I have then at Gokus 60% of power or so, Vegeta was confident on taking at Cell Supressed at first, the one Cell who was equal to 50% MSSJ Goku
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


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