base Saiyans vs Piccolo

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base Saiyans vs Piccolo
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 2 2014, 04:39 PM (5,243 Views)
+ Majin Vegeta	Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Post #61
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok .
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


+ Emmeth	Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Post #62
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. How do you explain the Saiyans improving on such a large scale, when it's even stated that Vegeta isn't as strong as Gohan was back then? Also take into account that Gohan isn't that much weaker than his CG counterpart, he's only a bit rusty. It's very unlikely Base Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo. The only other explanation could be they are sensing the Zet-Senshi's suppressed battlepower, and Piccolo is suppressing even more than the Saiyans.
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+ Majin Vegeta	Jan 12 2014, 09:07 PM Post #63
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Ok, I believe I changed my mind about tgis whole situation, on,y and because it doesn't make sense for Base Saiyans>Piccolo
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 10:10 PM Post #64
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. I don't think so. The Cell Jrs. were toying with them. All the fight really proves is that Piccolo is in between the humans and Super Saiyans.
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wolfie	Jan 12 2014, 10:12 PM Post #65
Posts: 159 Group: Member Member #10,702 Joined: January 8, 2014 Gender Male	Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. How do you explain the Saiyans improving on such a large scale, when it's even stated that Vegeta isn't as strong as Gohan was back then? Also take into account that Gohan isn't that much weaker than his CG counterpart, he's only a bit rusty. It's very unlikely Base Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo. The only other explanation could be they are sensing the Zet-Senshi's suppressed battlepower, and Piccolo is suppressing even more than the Saiyans. Piccolo only held his own in the Anime as filler. in the original he did not do so well



+ Emmeth	Jan 12 2014, 10:13 PM Post #66
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:10 PM Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. I don't think so. The Cell Jrs. were toying with them. All the fight really proves is that Piccolo is in between the humans and Super Saiyans. I believe the Cell Jrs were fighting at the same level against all their opponents, hence why the humans and a very tired Goku was nothing to them. @wolfie If I remember correctly, he was still standing when Gohan transformed, and the Cell Jrs didn't fight the others after that. And there was only 2 (?) frames of Piccolo fighting the Cell Jrs. Him standing at the end is more proof of him doing better than not. Edited by Emmeth, Jan 12 2014, 10:16 PM.
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+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 10:17 PM Post #67
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 10:13 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:10 PM Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. I don't think so. The Cell Jrs. were toying with them. All the fight really proves is that Piccolo is in between the humans and Super Saiyans. I believe the Cell Jrs were fighting at the same level against all their opponents, hence why the humans and a very tired Goku was nothing to them. @wolfie If I remember correctly, he was still standing when Gohan transformed, and the Cell Jrs didn't fight the others after that. And there was only 2 (?) frames of Piccolo fighting the Cell Jrs. Him standing at the end is more proof of him doing better than not. The humans should've been killed, then. Same with Goku.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Emmeth	Jan 12 2014, 10:19 PM Post #68
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:17 PM Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 10:13 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:10 PM Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. I don't think so. The Cell Jrs. were toying with them. All the fight really proves is that Piccolo is in between the humans and Super Saiyans. I believe the Cell Jrs were fighting at the same level against all their opponents, hence why the humans and a very tired Goku was nothing to them. @wolfie If I remember correctly, he was still standing when Gohan transformed, and the Cell Jrs didn't fight the others after that. And there was only 2 (?) frames of Piccolo fighting the Cell Jrs. Him standing at the end is more proof of him doing better than not. The humans should've been killed, then. Same with Goku. Same level, but Cell didn't want them to kill Zet-Senshi. Controlled torture.
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wolfie	Jan 12 2014, 10:20 PM Post #69
Posts: 159 Group: Member Member #10,702 Joined: January 8, 2014 Gender Male	It's clear that piccolo at one point left them in the dust, but during cell games they surpassed him once more. How ever I'm not convinced he still was not as powerful as say trunks SSJ or Vegeeta ssj just not their grade 2\3



+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 10:37 PM Post #70
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 10:19 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:17 PM Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 10:13 PM Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:10 PM Emmeth Jan 12 2014, 08:11 PM Vegeta SSj4 Jan 12 2014, 08:06 PM Well considering there are some other few feats to prove it, its not so stupid, anyhow I won't get into this debate over again, so I'm ok . Let me get into it. Piccolo is holding his own against the Cell Jrs during Cell Games, which only Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ is also doing. That means he must be pretty close to them. I don't think so. The Cell Jrs. were toying with them. All the fight really proves is that Piccolo is in between the humans and Super Saiyans. I believe the Cell Jrs were fighting at the same level against all their opponents, hence why the humans and a very tired Goku was nothing to them. @wolfie If I remember correctly, he was still standing when Gohan transformed, and the Cell Jrs didn't fight the others after that. And there was only 2 (?) frames of Piccolo fighting the Cell Jrs. Him standing at the end is more proof of him doing better than not. The humans should've been killed, then. Same with Goku. Same level, but Cell didn't want them to kill Zet-Senshi. Controlled torture. I'm not understanding where Piccolo fits in, then. Just gonna post some thoughts as well. hleV Again, we didn't see a single panel of Piccolo vs Cell Jr. You simply don't know how it went, thus you can't compare Piccolo's performance to that of Vegeta & Trunks'. You just assume. I'm not saying Piccolo is incomparable to Vegeta & Trunks, I say nothing shows for certain that he is. hleV Kuririn & Yamcha are weak - check. Tired Goku is weaker than Piccolo - check. Piccolo is comparable to Vegeta & Trunks because he's standing - ~~check~~. Wait, what? Why does Piccolo have to be comparable to Vegeta & Trunks to be able to stand? Wouldn't we need to know how Tired Goku compares to Piccolo first? An example number scenario where Piccolo is not exactly comparable to Vegeta & Trunks, but shouldn't necessarily be lying on the ground after a few hits: Kuririn, Yamcha - 1 Tired Goku - 1,000 Piccolo - 2,000 Vegeta, Trunks - 4,000 Cell Jr. - 4,000 These numbers could be changed quite drastically and my point would still stand: Even if we assume that Cell Jrs. went equally as hard against Piccolo, Vegeta & Trunks (and Toriyama didn't bother drawing Piccolo's fight), all that is clear is that Piccolo is strong enough to stand one or a few hits, while Tired Goku is not. It doesn't instantly put Piccolo on par with Vegeta & Trunks, as that's not a requirement to withstand a few hits. The requirement is to be strong enough, which Piccolo, Vegeta & Trunks are. hleV @rereboy, You assume too much. You assume that Piccolo undergone a similar "fight" to Vegeta & Trunks'. You assume that Piccolo is comparable to Vegeta & Trunks only because he wasn't knocked down and Tired Goku was, without having any idea whatsoever how Piccolo compares to Tired Goku (that's why I called bulls*** on that). You assume that your opinion is "the most likely scenario". I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm saying that it's as likely that you're wrong as it's likely that you're not. You'd also have to contend with Piccolo himself admitting he was useless against Cell (even Goku asked if he could just split back into Kami and Piccolo to get the DBs back), who hadn't powered up beyond what was used against Vegeta and Trunks. This Cell was surpassed by Vegeta and Trunks after their second trips to the RoSaT.
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wolfie	Jan 12 2014, 10:45 PM Post #71
Posts: 159 Group: Member Member #10,702 Joined: January 8, 2014 Gender Male	http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+34&page=160 this is the only panel you see of him vs the Cell Jr's, all this MAY prove (on the best case) Is he is stronger then the humans, Vegeta and trunks are getting their butts handed to them, they have enough to fight back how ever (getting in a few hits) we never see piccolo get in any hits So at best you have Trunks and vegeta (fighting back some what and standing in the end) Picciolo (Standing but no sign of him being able to fight back) tired goku (He may even be weaker than the humans at this point but I'm putting him ahead) Humans



+ Emmeth	Jan 12 2014, 10:49 PM Post #72
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	^ Piccolo is shown standing in a panel right below Vegeta and Trunks.
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+ Pyrus	Jan 12 2014, 10:52 PM Post #73
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Which means what exactly? Tenshinhan was standing at one point as well.
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+ Emmeth	Jan 12 2014, 10:59 PM Post #74
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Kamikaze Pyro Jan 12 2014, 10:52 PM Which means what exactly? Tenshinhan was standing at one point as well. Wow, that's weak. That's the beginning of the fight, it shows Tenshinhan is more resilient than the other humans. Piccolo was standing at the END of it.
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wolfie	Jan 12 2014, 11:01 PM Post #75
Posts: 159 Group: Member Member #10,702 Joined: January 8, 2014 Gender Male	I said he was standing, but that dont mean he = them Vegeta and trunks fight back, we never see picciolo fight back So all this says is Vegeta and trunks can stand AND fight back Picciolo is just standing, he may never even laid a finger on them in which case Vegeta and trunks > piccolo Edited by wolfie, Jan 12 2014, 11:02 PM.



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