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What multiplers do you use for the forms
Topic Started: Dec 29 2013, 12:22 AM (2,603 Views)
SSJ Dec 29 2013, 03:56 PM Post #31
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Instant Transmission
Dec 29 2013, 03:03 PM
thats absurd
No, no it's not actually. Maybe you could do a better job proving why it's absurd, instead of calling out someone's opinion.

The 10x SSJ multiplier is one of the most common things around. Toriyama himself stated that he had a 10x multiplier for SSJ in mind when he was writing the story, so many people have accepted that. Not only this, but it helps with the problems in the Android Arc with Dr Gero and his absorptions.
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EMIYA Dec 29 2013, 04:00 PM Post #32
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"I am the bone of my sword."
Instant Transmission
Dec 29 2013, 03:03 PM
thats absurd
1.) One/Two word posts like these are not allowed on the forum.

2.) You should back yourself up with what you believe instead of just going out saying something is "absurd"
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bloodstained euphy Dec 29 2013, 04:40 PM Post #33
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SuperSaiyan2
Dec 29 2013, 03:56 PM
Toriyama himself stated that he had a 10x multiplier for SSJ in mind when he was writing the story, so many people have accepted that.
He had to finalize it with 50x though. So it's 50x
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SSJ Dec 29 2013, 05:29 PM Post #34
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bloodstained euphy
Dec 29 2013, 04:40 PM
SuperSaiyan2
Dec 29 2013, 03:56 PM
Toriyama himself stated that he had a 10x multiplier for SSJ in mind when he was writing the story, so many people have accepted that.
He had to finalize it with 50x though. So it's 50x
When did he finalize it? A guidebook declared that it was a 50x boost. Anyways I use the 50x, I'm just saying that 10x is a viable option.
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ObsessiveFanBoy Dec 29 2013, 06:25 PM Post #35
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I am Always Right... Unless When I'm Wrong

 Not only that, a 10x multiplier for SSJ contradicts a 10xKK.

Speaking of 10x, I've seen many people (not just on here) begin to use 10x multipliers for MSSJ after the initial 50x. Why are people doing this? Does being a MSSJ reduce the intitial 50x power up?
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SSJ Dec 29 2013, 06:27 PM Post #36
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Judai Yuki
Dec 29 2013, 06:25 PM
Not only that, a 10x multiplier for SSJ contradicts a 10xKK.

Speaking of 10x, I've seen many people (not just on here) begin to use 10x multipliers for MSSJ after the initial 50x. Why are people doing this? Does being a MSSJ reduce the intitial 50x power up?
No, people generally switch during the Android Arc,when Dr Gero says that with the help of Piccolo, Gohan, and the humans, he can surpass SSJ Vegeta. It becomes more logical if Vegeta's SSJ multiplier is lower than 50x, because there is no way that those four fighters would cover the gap.
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Kienzan Dec 29 2013, 06:31 PM Post #37
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+

 50,4,4.
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ObsessiveFanBoy Dec 29 2013, 06:46 PM Post #38
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I am Always Right... Unless When I'm Wrong
SuperSaiyan2
Dec 29 2013, 06:27 PM
Judai Yuki
Dec 29 2013, 06:25 PM
Not only that, a 10x multiplier for SSJ contradicts a 10xKK.

Speaking of 10x, I've seen many people (not just on here) begin to use 10x multipliers for MSSJ after the initial 50x. Why are people doing this? Does being a MSSJ reduce the intitial 50x power up?
No, people generally switch during the Android Arc,when Dr Gero says that with the help of Piccolo, Gohan, and the humans, he can surpass SSJ Vegeta. It becomes more logical if Vegeta's SSJ multiplier is lower than 50x, because there is no way that those four fighters would cover the gap.
It still seems sketchy how people suddenly just "switch" from 50x to 10x just like that. There needs to be a BROADER reason than just that.
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SSJ Dec 29 2013, 06:52 PM Post #39
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Judai Yuki
Dec 29 2013, 06:46 PM
SuperSaiyan2
Dec 29 2013, 06:27 PM
Judai Yuki
Dec 29 2013, 06:25 PM
Not only that, a 10x multiplier for SSJ contradicts a 10xKK.

Speaking of 10x, I've seen many people (not just on here) begin to use 10x multipliers for MSSJ after the initial 50x. Why are people doing this? Does being a MSSJ reduce the intitial 50x power up?
No, people generally switch during the Android Arc,when Dr Gero says that with the help of Piccolo, Gohan, and the humans, he can surpass SSJ Vegeta. It becomes more logical if Vegeta's SSJ multiplier is lower than 50x, because there is no way that those four fighters would cover the gap.
It still seems sketchy how people suddenly just "switch" from 50x to 10x just like that. There needs to be a BROADER reason than just that.
Sketchy indeed, but there is more potential evidence. With all of the evidence of the base Saiyans surpassing Piccolo (I don't believe this) in the Boo arc, it makes sense for the multiplier to drop. Piccolo had always been keeping up with the Super Saiyans, and in the Cell Games, Goku compliments his power. Then we have the whole Cell Jr debate, which could show Piccolo holding his own against them. Then when we jump to the Boo arc, Dabura says that Piccolo is useless compared to the Base Saiyans, and Vegeta is confident of winning the Budokai in Base. We know at he most, the Saiyans had surpassed Kid Gohan by a little bit in the Boo arc, so for their Base forms to surpass Piccolo, perhaps the multiplier dropped.
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+ Kaboom Dec 29 2013, 09:07 PM Post #40
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 As I just said in another thread... I think people read too much into Toriyama's comment about the 10x boost thing. He only seems to be saying that he has a hard time picturing something as large as a 50x boost, but still apparently accepts that's what it ended up being. If he truly had a problem with the official 50x boost or really wanted it to be something else, I sincerely doubt they'd have printed it as such in that very same set of books.
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* Ketchup Revenge Dec 30 2013, 02:18 AM Post #41
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

 Early in the series (Freeza Arc/Trunks Arc):
SSj = 50x base

Android/Imperfect Cell Arc:
SSj = 50x base
Sick Goku SSj = 30x Base
SSj Grade 2 = 2x SSj
SSj Grade 3 = 2x SSj Grade 2

Later in the series (Boo Arc):
SSj = 2x Base
SSj2 = 2x SSj
SSj3 = 2x SSj2 (4x SSj/8x Base)

Reason for these multipliers are that this is the context in which the series was written as Toriyama simply forgot multipliers. Evidence to this is that we've seen him be forgetful to the point that it's pathetic. He didn't even remember that Launch existed, so why in the hell do we believe that he'd remember multipliers that he technically didn't even come up with? Power scaling in the later series is simply done in tiers, not multipliers. B character is the next tier up from A character, and "A" character's transformation puts them at or above B Character.

But to be completely honest, I don't actually believe in multipliers at all because it goes against what Vegeta tells Gero and 19 about Saiyan power, and the fact that Super Saiyan is born from a Saiyan's latent ki.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Dec 30 2013, 02:20 AM.
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ObsessiveFanBoy Dec 30 2013, 04:02 AM Post #42
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Ketchup Revenge
 
But to be completely honest, I don't actually believe in multipliers at all because it goes against what Vegeta tells Gero and 19 about Saiyan power, and the fact that Super Saiyan is born from a Saiyan's latent ki.
So do you believe the Bringer of Death's fanfiction that a SSJ transformation is around a 145 million power increase?

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* Ketchup Revenge Dec 30 2013, 07:09 AM Post #43
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
Judai Yuki
Dec 30 2013, 04:02 AM
Ketchup Revenge
 
But to be completely honest, I don't actually believe in multipliers at all because it goes against what Vegeta tells Gero and 19 about Saiyan power, and the fact that Super Saiyan is born from a Saiyan's latent ki.
So do you believe the Bringer of Death's fanfiction that a SSJ transformation is around a 145 million power increase?

I don't believe in a standard increase for Super Saiyan at all because every Saiyan is different.
Vegeta's increase when he transforms could be completely different from Goku's for all we know, even if the end result is the same. Goten's increase is evidenced to be higher than Trunks's considering that Trunks trains in enhanced gravity while Goten doesn't, and both are pretty much equal in power while transformed. It simply doesn't make sense. By that logic, Trunks should be miles ahead of Goten.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Dec 30 2013, 07:10 AM.
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lunar2 Dec 30 2013, 10:14 PM Post #44
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Ketchupis Ultionis
Dec 30 2013, 07:09 AM
Judai Yuki
Dec 30 2013, 04:02 AM
Ketchup Revenge
 
But to be completely honest, I don't actually believe in multipliers at all because it goes against what Vegeta tells Gero and 19 about Saiyan power, and the fact that Super Saiyan is born from a Saiyan's latent ki.
So do you believe the Bringer of Death's fanfiction that a SSJ transformation is around a 145 million power increase?

I don't believe in a standard increase for Super Saiyan at all because every Saiyan is different.
Vegeta's increase when he transforms could be completely different from Goku's for all we know, even if the end result is the same. Goten's increase is evidenced to be higher than Trunks's considering that Trunks trains in enhanced gravity while Goten doesn't, and both are pretty much equal in power while transformed. It simply doesn't make sense. By that logic, Trunks should be miles ahead of Goten.
or gravity training really doesn't make that much difference. which is why no one but vegeta uses it.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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* Ketchup Revenge Dec 31 2013, 01:14 AM Post #45
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
lunar2
Dec 30 2013, 10:14 PM
Ketchupis Ultionis
Dec 30 2013, 07:09 AM
Judai Yuki
Dec 30 2013, 04:02 AM
Ketchup Revenge
 
But to be completely honest, I don't actually believe in multipliers at all because it goes against what Vegeta tells Gero and 19 about Saiyan power, and the fact that Super Saiyan is born from a Saiyan's latent ki.
So do you believe the Bringer of Death's fanfiction that a SSJ transformation is around a 145 million power increase?

I don't believe in a standard increase for Super Saiyan at all because every Saiyan is different.
Vegeta's increase when he transforms could be completely different from Goku's for all we know, even if the end result is the same. Goten's increase is evidenced to be higher than Trunks's considering that Trunks trains in enhanced gravity while Goten doesn't, and both are pretty much equal in power while transformed. It simply doesn't make sense. By that logic, Trunks should be miles ahead of Goten.
or gravity training really doesn't make that much difference. which is why no one but vegeta uses it.
I agree, but it wouldn't make sense why Vegeta would use it then. But either way, Goku trains with weights, which is along the same concept as training with enhanced gravity.
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