Could a Base Saiyan defeat a SSJ?

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Could a Base Saiyan defeat a SSJ?
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 19 2013, 03:29 PM (1,408 Views)
Android17fan	Dec 19 2013, 03:29 PM Post #1
Posts: 125 Group: Member Member #10,490 Joined: November 15, 2013	Example: could Base Goku defeat SSJ Gotens? is The SSJ form always stronger than a Base Saiyan form or does the gap between the two have an effect?



SSJ	Dec 19 2013, 03:32 PM Post #2
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	You're going to find a split in the community on this one. I know many of the people on this forum believe that the Base Saiyans surpass Freeza, and many lower grade Super Saiyan versions. However on a forum such as Kanzenshuu, they often believe the opposite. It's really up to you to choose whichever you believe, as there is evidence for both sides. As for me, I think they could easily defeat the early Super Saiyans, potentially making it as far as the pre-rosat Super Saiyans.



+ Ssj3vegito96	Dec 19 2013, 03:43 PM Post #3
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Take bardock for example. He's no stronger than 3rd form frieza and base goku was already stronger than third form frieza when he fought his final form. Base goku can't take on ssj goten though. It all depends on how strong the base saiyan is. If one saiyans base power is a little less than another saiyan, but he turns ssj, the weaker saiyan will easily kill the stronger one Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 19 2013, 03:44 PM.
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Hearts	Dec 19 2013, 03:48 PM Post #4
Posts: 1,173 Group: Member Member #10,454 Joined: November 6, 2013	How can people be split on that? If Raditz went SSJ, he would have a powerlevel of 75k.. thats nothing, ofcourse Goku would be able to beat him, its not like Goku would suddenly be incapable of beating him



SSJ	Dec 19 2013, 03:50 PM Post #5
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Because this topic is about the Super Saiyans that we saw. Hypothetical Super Saiyans are not real, therefore they do not count. In my opinion there is a fair amount of manga evidence to show that Base Saiyans > Freeza/SSJ Tier, however Battle of Gods says otherwise.



* Ketchup Revenge	Dec 19 2013, 03:53 PM Post #6
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	I actually agree with your powerscale SuperSaiyan2. Obviously the fusions can beat Freeza and probably Perfect Cell (pre-zenkai), but I'm not sure if any of the regular Saiyans can. One of the guides if I recall correctly stated that increases in base were minimal after Super Saiyan was achieved. With that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if no Saiyan ever got higher than pre-Android Super Saiyans at the very most. Something also to be aware of is that Super Saiyans train as if Super Saiyan can be increased independently from base. If SSj was truly just simply a multiplier, than the only way to increase it would be to increase your base power, correct? But we almost always see Super Saiyans train in Super Saiyan. This indicates that the two forms aren't exactly linked, and the premise of Super Saiyan being simply a multiplier as according to the guides is wrong.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


bloodstained euphy	Dec 19 2013, 03:56 PM Post #7
Posts: 842 Group: Member Member #7,357 Joined: February 25, 2012 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Code Geas, Dinosaur King, Sword Art Online, One Punch Man, Danganronpa What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox	Super Saiyan is a form that multiplies power, of course a saiyan in his/her regular form can beat a super saiyan if the gap between their base powers is large enough, to be exact if the stronger saiyan is 50+ times stronger than the weaker one. @Ketchup Revenge: They also want to gain further mastery of the form, so they train in it. Also for the possibility of ascending beyond it. The super saiyan power boost is still a multiplier, there's nothing that actually suggests otherwise. Edited by bloodstained euphy, Dec 19 2013, 03:59 PM.



SSJ	Dec 19 2013, 03:57 PM Post #8
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Hmm, Ketchup what if they just train in SSJ to make their training as realistic as possible? I mean, fighting as a Super Saiyan is definitely more taxing than fighting in base, so perhaps they just want to train under the same stressful conditions? (Also Ketchup, want to apologize for being a little b*** the other day)



Hearts	Dec 19 2013, 04:10 PM Post #9
Posts: 1,173 Group: Member Member #10,454 Joined: November 6, 2013	SuperSaiyan2 Dec 19 2013, 03:50 PM Because this topic is about the Super Saiyans that we saw. Hypothetical Super Saiyans are not real, therefore they do not count. In my opinion there is a fair amount of manga evidence to show that Base Saiyans > Freeza/SSJ Tier, however Battle of Gods says otherwise. Oh i see, thought he meant the Super Saiyan overall.. Im with you guys tho, I would love it if Base Saiyans were weaker than Frieza but i cant see how, they got too strong at the Cell Games



* Ketchup Revenge	Dec 19 2013, 04:20 PM Post #10
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	SuperSaiyan2 Dec 19 2013, 03:57 PM Hmm, Ketchup what if they just train in SSJ to make their training as realistic as possible? I mean, fighting as a Super Saiyan is definitely more taxing than fighting in base, so perhaps they just want to train under the same stressful conditions? (Also Ketchup, want to apologize for being a little b*** the other day) It was an obvious misunderstanding on my part, but either way, I completely fan-girl squee'd and blew $90 on a figure I've wanted forever that I'd finally found at an incredibly low price. (I've seen them go as high as $700). I would absolutely cry if I got it and found out it was a bootleg. The seller looked legit, but almost completely uneducated in figures, and conveniently enough for me, didn't seem to know exactly what they had. So in short, I'd completely forgot about everything in my life at that point. As for your premise about Super Saiyan training, it seems logical. But to me, I think their training is more to work with the form so it's easier to use when they need to use it to fight. It also seems likely that since Super Saiyan at that point in time is their strongest form, they'd want to increase that power directly.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Alex D. Boss	Dec 19 2013, 04:49 PM Post #11
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	Depends on which Base Goku.



+ Pointer	Dec 19 2013, 05:02 PM Post #12
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Android17fan Dec 19 2013, 03:29 PM Example: could Base Goku defeat SSJ Gotens? is The SSJ form always stronger than a Base Saiyan form or does the gap between the two have an effect? Of course base goku eoz godstomps ssj goten Edited by Pointer, Dec 19 2013, 05:04 PM.



+ Pyrus	Dec 19 2013, 07:04 PM Post #13
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	The weakest Super Saiyan we saw in the manga was 13-year-old SSj Future Trunks. He'd likely get stomped by any of the Boo arc Base Saiyans. I also believe Base Goten & Trunks are somewhat superior to No.18, so the android saga Super Saiyans would be smashed by the Boo arc Base Saiyans as well, in my opinion.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Dec 19 2013, 07:12 PM Post #14
魔王子 Posts: 9,797 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	We see base Gohan fighting SSJ Trunks, A base Saiyan can certainly be equal to or stronger than a SSJ depending on the base strength of the SSJ. Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Dec 19 2013, 07:14 PM.
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+ Pyrus	Dec 19 2013, 07:19 PM Post #15
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	ThePrinceOfSaiyajins Dec 19 2013, 07:12 PM We see base Gohan fighting SSJ Trunks, A base Saiyan can certainly be equal to or stronger than a SSJ depending on the base strength of the SSJ. Then again, we don't know the context of that fight precisely. Gohan didn't look tired at all while Trunks looked exhausted. We could've been seeing the tail end of it.
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