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Vegeta = 250k on Namek
Topic Started: Dec 18 2013, 09:12 PM (2,215 Views)
SSJ Dec 18 2013, 09:12 PM Post #1
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 1. Uncontradicted Guidebook Power Level

Normally, I’m not one to follow guidebook power levels, however if they are not contradicted, then there is no reason to believe otherwise. V-Jump from 1990 shows Vegeta as being 250 000, and there is no reason to be in disbelief.

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Chapter: 289 (DBZ 95), P6.1-2
Context: after Jheese freaks out over Vegeta's new battle power
Vegeta: “That’s right…I’ve surpassed Saiyan limits, and my strength is still increasing more and more…The truth is that I’ve realized it too…That this extension of my power isn’t merely what you’d call giftedness…In other words…I’m steadily drawing near…to becoming a Super Saiyan!”

So basically what I take from this is that Vegeta is continuing to increase his power level during the fight. I think that his Zenkai from Recoom is still in effect, and is continuing to raise his power level. It may seem like Vegeta is doing worse than Goku did against Jeice, but once he tells Jeice to look at his scouter, the match is over. Vegeta proceeds to manhandle him with one shot. So he may have been below suppressed Goku during the fight, but since his power keeps on raising, he reaches 250 000 by the end of the fight.

Not only this, but there is no reason to believe that supressed Goku was at exactly 60 000 in power level. This was never confirmed by scouters, because they could never pick up Goku. All we have to go off of is Ginyu’s estimation, which could have easily been false. He was saying that for the feat of beating Recoome, Jeice and Burter, you would probably need to be around 60 000 in power level. So is Goku 60 000? I don’t think so. Why you may ask? Because it took so little time for him to reach his maximum Base power of 90 000. Goku began to power up, and he was almost immediately maxed out, and ready to use Kaioken. So when people say that Vegeta at Jeice would be under 60 000 in power level, I think that is false. Goku could have easily been at 75 000 based on his spar with Ginyu, so it is no stretch to say that Vegeta was near that range against Jeice.

So logically, Vegeta could have been powering up during the fight as the quote supports. Vegeta also says that he is near to becoming a Super Saiyan, which he already thought Goku was. This Goku as I said was probably around 70 000, but Vegeta knew Goku was toying with the Ginyus I really doubt that he expected his suppressed power to be his maximum. On earth, Goku fought the saiyans suppressed at first, and then powered up. It is logical to think that he would do the same on Namek, especially if he didn’t need his full power. So Vegeta in the beginning stages with Jeice was probably at least close to this suppressed Goku.

We also have some more textual evidence to prove this.

Chapter: 289 (DBZ 95), P5.2-7
Context: as Vegeta and Jheese fight
Jheese: ”You’ve got to be kidding! There’s no way you could be any match for me!”
Vegeta: “Kukkukkuh…You say that, but you’re scared, aren’t you? Scared of my battle power, now that I’ve recovered…Take a gooo—oood look on your precious scouter…”
Jheese: “Scared!? Fuhahahaha, You think I’m scared of your battle power? Of piddling little Vegeta?”
*he checks scouter*
Jheese: “I'm…impossible…Da-damn it! It’s broken!”
Vegeta: “Kukkukku…Do you really think so?”

Vegeta says that he has now recovered. So what I understand from this is that Vegeta’s zenkai had finally completed when he was battling Jeice. It can explain why he looked somewhat unimpressive at the beginning of the fight, and one shotting him after making the statement. My theory is that because Vegeta was so badly damaged, his zenkai took longer to complete. The same can be seen by when Gohan had a zenkai from Second Form Freeza, and Vegeta took note that his power had risen a good deal after he was healed. So Vegeta could have shot from ~70 000 to 250 000.

2. Mathematics

Goku had a maximum power of 180 000, and Ginyu could only utilize 23 000 of this power. This means Ginyu was only able to access around 13% of Goku's power. Now, I have Gohan and Krillin somewhere in the mid-high 20 000 range, which was more than enough to beat this Ginyu. At this point in time, Goku was no real threat, the only threats were Gohan and Krillin (excluding Vegeta). Ginyu would know that he has to surpass them to survive the fight. If we take my power level for Vegeta: 250 000 and take 13 % of that, it comes up to 32 500. I personally think that Ginyu may have has this in mind, that he would not be able to use Vegeta's full strength. But if he used around the same amount of power that he did in Goku's body, he would be able to beat Gohan and Krillin. Obviously Ginyu wouldn’t be plotting the percentages like I did, but he would know that a sronger body = stronger power that can be controlled. If he could barely access any of Goku’s powers, Vegeta must have been stronger than Goku in order for him to beat Gohan and Krillin.

Daizenshuu
 
Crying "Change!!", he fires a dazzling light at his opponent from out of his entire body. After being covered by this light, his opponent is drawn into Ginyu's body through the mouth, and they exchange bodies. In order to exchange consciousness with his opponent, the user of this technique has a ball of his own consciousness invade his opponent's body through the mouth, and he obtains their body. It takes some time for both people to get used to their switched bodies, and during that time they are unable to freely control their power. (Daizenshuu 2, p.212 / Daizenshuu 4, p.58)


The Daizenshuu confirms that it takes time to control the power that Ginyu takes, so if he was unsatisfied with being 23 000 for so long, then he needed something stronger. Even if he would eventually control Goku’s full power, it wasn’t enough at the time. This should prove that Vegeta was the strongest, as Ginyu needed him just to beat Gohan and Krillin.

This is all I have for now, but if I can think of any other reasons I will add them. Please comment :)
Edited by SSJ, Dec 18 2013, 09:12 PM.
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME Dec 18 2013, 09:35 PM Post #2
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MY FACE!

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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans Dec 18 2013, 09:37 PM Post #3
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魔王子

 I don't take the V-Jump levels for anyone too seriously. Vegeta wouldn't be so confident against Freeza if he were that weak. Freeza would be more than twice as strong as Vegeta. This scan also seems to suggest that Goku's BP was 180,000 without Kaioken.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Dec 18 2013, 09:39 PM.
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SSJ Dec 18 2013, 09:39 PM Post #4
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Dec 18 2013, 09:37 PM
I don't take the V-Jump levels for anyone too seriously. Vegeta wouldn't be so confident against Freeza if he were that weak. Freeza would be more than twice as strong as Vegeta.
Yeah but this is specifically for when he was fighting Jeice and Ginyu. He was much stronger when he went against Freeza.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans Dec 18 2013, 09:45 PM Post #5
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魔王子

 I don't know, Jeice got in a shot. I don't see Vegeta being THAT much stronger than Jeice. 250,000 is a bit much.
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SSJ Dec 18 2013, 09:46 PM Post #6
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Dec 18 2013, 09:45 PM
I don't know, Jeice got in a shot. I don't see Vegeta being THAT much stronger than Jeice. 250,000 is a bit much.
Yes, I agree, but did you read the part I posted about his recovery? He said he had finally recovered in the middle of his battle, meaning he could have made a huge jump in power.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans Dec 18 2013, 09:48 PM Post #7
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魔王子

 I think he went from 60,000 to 480,000 myself.
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SSJ Dec 18 2013, 09:49 PM Post #8
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 I think he went from:

70k - 250k - 500k

His rest during the time when Goku was healing gave him another big power boost. But I see him being 250k prior to that rest.
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+ Kaboom Dec 18 2013, 11:56 PM Post #9
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 I don't have a problem with the 250k number across the board. Even after witnessing Goku's Kaio-Ken power (and knowing he could summon more), Jheese was still pretty flabbergasted by Vegeta's new power, whatever it was, so it may well have already been the full 250 thousand. Against Freeza, Vegeta was counting a lot on having Gohan and Kuririn back him up, and his short little tussle with 1st-form Freeza wasn't as "even" as some like to think it was.
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lazerbem Dec 19 2013, 01:35 AM Post #10
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 Vegeta's power could not have spiked in the two seconds that spanned that fight. Here's the problem, Jeice busts Vegeta's lip and a second later. he's one-shotted. Are you telling me that Vegeta's power increased from just above Jeice to 250k in seconds? Anyway, Ginyu trying for Vegeta's body was more because Goku's body was crippled at that point, he had no other choice.

I have Vegeta being at 55,000 against Jeice and then buffing to 470k against Frieza
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+ Pyrus Dec 19 2013, 02:58 AM Post #11
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 Hey, I remember some people debating something like this a while ago.

Ah, yes.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8403153/1/
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SSJ Dec 19 2013, 03:47 AM Post #12
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Darth Pyrus
Dec 19 2013, 02:58 AM
Hey, I remember some people debating something like this a while ago.

Ah, yes.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8403153/1/
Indeed my friend. I tried to refine, and add to my points that I made there.
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+ miguelnuva Dec 19 2013, 03:53 AM Post #13
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 I have Vegeta at 250 K for the Jeice battle and then 505K against Frieza. Vegeta to me was exhausted so his nap doubled his power.
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lunar2 Dec 19 2013, 04:29 AM Post #14
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miguelnuva
Dec 19 2013, 03:53 AM
I have Vegeta at 250 K for the Jeice battle and then 505K against Frieza. Vegeta to me was exhausted so his nap doubled his power.
he couldn't have been exhausted. he'd just had a sensu bean. he was at full energy for that fight.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Pyrus Dec 19 2013, 05:06 AM Post #15
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D7
 
Senzu
First Appearance: chapter 88
Category: medical
Explanation: Mystical beans cultivated by Karin. They saved Goku and co. from many tight spots throughout numerous battles.
Special Characteristics: Even after sustaining deadly injuries, eating just one of these beans will instantly and completely heal you. At the same time they also have the power to restore stamina and ki power lost in battle. Though they’re small beans about the size of a thumb, they also have the effect of filling up one’s stomach and staving off hunger for about 10 days. They’re an all-purpose recovery item, but are only ineffective against diseases. Furthermore, since it is only possible to harvest a very small amount at once, Karin’s supply continued to be unable to keep up with Goku and co.’s use. (Daizenshuu 4, p.162)
Anime: In “Resistance to Despair!! The Remaining Super Warriors, Gohan and Trunks”, the final bean was used to heal Trunks after he was injured in the battle with No.17 and No.18. However, because of this Gohan was unable to heal his own injuries, and ended up losing his left arm. (Daizenshuu 6, p.170)
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