SSJ mutiplier and the Base Saiyans.

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SSJ mutiplier and the Base Saiyans.
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 19 2013, 03:55 PM (2,363 Views)
Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 10:40 PM Post #31
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Its not hinted he's talking about them as whole either. Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!” Sounds as if he's talking about SSJ Goten.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 10:41 PM Post #32
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 10:40 PM Its not hinted he's talking about them as whole either. Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!” Sounds as if he's talking about SSJ Goten. No, his tone is about Goten is general, not in one specific form. I am going to pull out my elitism side here and say: You are wrong.
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SSJ	Oct 19 2013, 10:42 PM Post #33
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	SuperSaiyan2 Oct 19 2013, 10:31 PM Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:27 PM Its not official. Its goes from x50 then said to decrease to x10 in an interview and finally shown to be either x2 or x3 threw statements. Officially what is said is Base Saiyans > Piccolo. That's not a plot hole. Incorrect. It was never said that the multiplier was decreased to 10x, you are absolutely making that up. All that was said was that Toriyama initially thought of SSJ as a 10x boost, but it never became official. Also your own 2-3x multiplier is not official either.



Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 10:47 PM Post #34
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	kuartus4 Oct 19 2013, 10:34 PM Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. Vegeta did not even know piccolo was participating in the tournament when he agreed to the no ssj rule. For all you know, he did change his mind about the no ssj rulewhen he saw piccolo there. The no ssj is not some unbreakable law. Goten, trunks and Mr. No ssj himself broke the rule. I don't see why vegeta would not if faced against piccolo or 18 Quote: Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. He says he wants to win. Then says he needs to train and later brings about the no SSJ rule. Gohan ~ Piccolo at the very least. Quote: Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. The thing is its not hinted Piccolo wants to win. Unlike Gohan.



lunar2	Oct 19 2013, 10:47 PM Post #35
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	direct statement that base gohan goku and vegeta are stronger than piccolo? Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.4 Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co. Babidi: “Get rid of the trash besides those 3 [Goku, Gohan, Vegeta], then return to the spaceship right away. That way, I think those 3 will fly into a rage and follow you inside for sure.” krillin, piccolo, and kibito were trash. goku, gohan and vegeta were not. that's a clear statement as to who is stronger than who.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 10:51 PM Post #36
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	SuperSaiyan2 Oct 19 2013, 10:42 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 19 2013, 10:31 PM Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:27 PM Its not official. Its goes from x50 then said to decrease to x10 in an interview and finally shown to be either x2 or x3 threw statements. Officially what is said is Base Saiyans > Piccolo. That's not a plot hole. Incorrect. It was never said that the multiplier was decreased to 10x, you are absolutely making that up. All that was said was that Toriyama initially thought of SSJ as a 10x boost, but it never became official. Also your own 2-3x multiplier is not official either. Quote: Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P3.1 Context: after Babidi measures Super Saiyan Goku's energy as 3,000 kiri Babidi: "...Is this measuring device malfunctioning...? But if he really is 3,000 kiri... Then Yakon can't win against him... Yakon's energy is 800 kiri..." Base Goku was a lot stronger than Yakon. So if the SSJ multiplier was x50 then how can he only be 3000 kiri while Yakon is 800 kiri. This shows that at this point the SSJ multiplier for Goku was only x2 or x3. Its not official but implications threw gaps are saying at that moment it was x2 or x3. Quote: No, his tone is about Goten is general, not in one specific form. I am going to pull out my elitism side here and say: You are wrong. How is his tone going to be different if SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks surpass him. Edited by Zenet, Oct 19 2013, 10:53 PM.



SSJ	Oct 19 2013, 10:51 PM Post #37
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	I was more concerned about what you said about the 10x multiplier.



kuartus4	Oct 19 2013, 10:54 PM Post #38
Posts: 248 Group: Member Member #9,157 Joined: March 8, 2013	Sage Oct 19 2013, 10:47 PM kuartus4 Oct 19 2013, 10:34 PM Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. Vegeta did not even know piccolo was participating in the tournament when he agreed to the no ssj rule. For all you know, he did change his mind about the no ssj rulewhen he saw piccolo there. The no ssj is not some unbreakable law. Goten, trunks and Mr. No ssj himself broke the rule. I don't see why vegeta would not if faced against piccolo or 18 Quote: Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. He says he wants to win. Then says he needs to train and later brings about the no SSJ rule. Gohan ~ Piccolo at the very least. Quote: Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. The thing is its not hinted Piccolo wants to win. Unlike Gohan. Why would he enter the tournament if he doesn't want to win?



Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 10:56 PM Post #39
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	kuartus4 Oct 19 2013, 10:54 PM Sage Oct 19 2013, 10:47 PM kuartus4 Oct 19 2013, 10:34 PM Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. Vegeta did not even know piccolo was participating in the tournament when he agreed to the no ssj rule. For all you know, he did change his mind about the no ssj rulewhen he saw piccolo there. The no ssj is not some unbreakable law. Goten, trunks and Mr. No ssj himself broke the rule. I don't see why vegeta would not if faced against piccolo or 18 Quote: Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. He says he wants to win. Then says he needs to train and later brings about the no SSJ rule. Gohan ~ Piccolo at the very least. Quote: Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. The thing is its not hinted Piccolo wants to win. Unlike Gohan. Why would he enter the tournament if he doesn't want to win? Krillin and Android 18 still entered without wanting to win.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 10:58 PM Post #40
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Krillin and 18 wanted money. Piccolo wanted to enter because he wanted to be with his friends. Let's face that. Doesn't change my opinion though.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 11:00 PM Post #41
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Then he wants to just take part because we know he doesn't want the money or to win.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 11:08 PM Post #42
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	I'm okay with Piccolo taking the role of mentor in the last arc, and and I'm okay with him not being dependant on when it comes to fights, but I still don't think he's weaker than the Base saiyans. At the very very least I have this: Base Goku >~ Piccolo > Base Vegeta > Base Gohan.
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+ Pyrus	Oct 19 2013, 11:17 PM Post #43
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	kuartus4 Oct 19 2013, 10:34 PM Vegeta did not even know piccolo was participating in the tournament when he agreed to the no ssj rule. For all you know, he did change his mind about the no ssj rulewhen he saw piccolo there. Could you reel me in a big fish of some proof for this one, buddy?
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IllogicalGlory	Oct 19 2013, 11:17 PM Post #44
Furious Posts: 2,112 Group: Duplicate Member #8,639 Joined: December 2, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Bleach	Emmeth pretty much sums it up for me; in a vacuum, base saiyans > Piccolo in the Boo arc makes sense, but powerscaling wise and considering his decent (offpanel) performance against Cell Juniors, I just can't put him below the base saiyans.



Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 11:52 PM Post #45
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Piccolo (Cell games) is below 50% MSSJ Goku just want to point that out. I used to think he was around SSJ Vegeta (Cell Games) but Goku says he doesn't stand a chance against Initial Perfect Cell so I now have him around ASSJ Vegeta 1st ROAST.



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