SSJ mutiplier and the Base Saiyans.

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SSJ mutiplier and the Base Saiyans.
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 19 2013, 03:55 PM (2,364 Views)
+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 09:28 PM Post #16
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:27 PM finally shown to be either x2 or x3 threw statements. Officially what is said is Base Saiyans > Piccolo. That's not a plot hole. Prove both.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 09:30 PM Post #17
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Quote: Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P3.1 Context: after Babidi measures Super Saiyan Goku's energy as 3,000 kiri Babidi: "...Is this measuring device malfunctioning...? But if he really is 3,000 kiri... Then Yakon can't win against him... Yakon's energy is 800 kiri..." Base Goku was a lot stronger than Yakon. So if the SSJ multiplier was x50 then how can he only be 3000 kiri while Yakon is 800 kiri. This shows that at this point the SSJ multiplier for Goku was only x2 or x3. Plus it is indirectly and directly shown that Base Goku, Vegeta and Gohan were stronger than Piccolo. So we can say that all three had a SSJ multiplier of x2 or x3 since they were all grouped together to fight Yakon and Pui Pui. Quote: For Base Gohan and Vegeta > Piccolo Gohan invites Piccolo to the tournament. Gohan is aware that Goku/Vegeta will be participating by this point. Gohan wants to win the tournament. Gohan wants to fight the tournament in Base. Vegeta says he will win the tournament in Base and doesn't change his mind when he see Piccolo.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 09:32 PM Post #18
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Not proof, but okay.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 09:33 PM Post #19
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Those are statements. Statements = proof.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 09:35 PM Post #20
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:33 PM Those are statements. Statements = proof. Those are implications, not statements. I want an official statement from AT saying Piccolo was indeed weaker than the Base Saiyans in Boo arc. Until you can provide that, my opinion doesn't change. I have also provided so-called "proof" speaking for Piccolo, so... stalement, son.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 09:39 PM Post #21
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Why do you need a interview for that when the manga hints so. Might as well say I need a interview to prove Vegeta > Nappa. Also I just debunked your claim but you haven't debunked mine. Edited by Zenet, Oct 19 2013, 09:39 PM.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 09:43 PM Post #22
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:39 PM Why do you need a interview for that when the manga hints so. Might as well say I need a interview to prove Vegeta > Nappa. Also I just debunked your claim but you haven't debunked mine. I have provided proof that Piccolo is stronger than Base Saiyans. Your "claims" doesn't simply debunk mine.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 09:57 PM Post #23
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	It does because your claim is SSJ Goten was close to SSJ Gohan. So Base Gohan can only be around Android 18 despite implications showing Base Gohan > Piccolo. That's called special pleading. Were else am not doing that am showing implications that Gohan,Goku and Goku have a x2 or x3 multiplier therefore have a stronger Base but smaller SSJ multiplier unlike Goten and Trunks (pre) . You never Debunked this so as far as what the manga shows Base Gohan > Piccolo



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 10:03 PM Post #24
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:57 PM It does because your claim is SSJ Goten was close to SSJ Gohan. So Base Gohan can only be around Android 18 despite implications showing Base Gohan > Piccolo. That's called special pleading. Were else am not doing that am showing implications that Gohan,Goku and Goku have a x2 or x3 multiplier therefore have a stronger Base but smaller SSJ multiplier unlike Goten and Trunks (pre) . You never Debunked this so as far as what the manga shows Base Gohan > Piccolo There is nothing to debunk, because it's pure speculation. For one, Gohan didn't want to win the tournament, this is never stated. He wanted to participate so he could meet his father. Chi-Chi wanted Gohan to win. The only thing is Vegeta being his cocky self, but be aware that Piccolo probably would fight with his cape on, and his powerlevel would be drastically decreased as a result. Also, let me add that Gohan also was impressed by Base Goten and not SSJ alone.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 10:12 PM Post #25
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Quote: Gohan didn't want to win the tournament He said so flying back to his house. Quote: Gohan also was impressed by Base Goten and not SSJ alone Gohan being impressed by Goten just means he thinks he's strong. Quote: Vegeta being his cocky self, but be aware that Piccolo probably would fight with his cape on, and his powerlevel would be drastically decreased as a result. A character personality doesn't change the meaning of what's said



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 10:16 PM Post #26
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 10:12 PM He said so flying back to his house. Manga-quote please. Because I don't remember that. Sage Oct 19 2013, 10:12 PM Gohan being impressed by Goten just means he thinks he's strong. Gohan: "Really!? That's how you guys have been playing?...thinking If I'm not careful, I'll be outstripped... by these little squirts..." Sage Oct 19 2013, 10:12 PM A character personality doesn't change the meaning of what's said Yeah, right.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 10:26 PM Post #27
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Quote: Manga-quote please. Because I don't remember that. Don't know were to find the quote by itself but its shortly after Gohan meets up Piccolo. Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.2-6 Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit Goten: “But you really are amazing, big brother! I couldn’t even hit you once.” Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!” Goten: “Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!” *Gohan: “Really!? That’s how you guys have been playing?...thinking* If I’m not careful, I’ll be outstripped…by these little squirts…” This is after fighting SSJ Goten** not Base Goten. Quote: Yeah, right I don't know were its hinted Vegeta thinks Piccolo would fight with weights on though.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 10:29 PM Post #28
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Gohan is talking about Goten as a whole, not just as a SSJ. He would say SSJ if he meant SSJ. I have nothing to add to the Piccolo with weights thing, but Vegeta throughout the entire Freeza arc and Cell arc was this cocky bastard who always had the "I can't lose" mentality, and he constantly got proven wrong. Character personality has a lot to say, don't think otherwise. For now, I'm done here. We are not getting anywhere.
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SSJ	Oct 19 2013, 10:31 PM Post #29
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:27 PM Its not official. Its goes from x50 then said to decrease to x10 in an interview and finally shown to be either x2 or x3 threw statements. Officially what is said is Base Saiyans > Piccolo. That's not a plot hole. Incorrect. It was never said that the multiplier was decreased to 10x, you are absolutely making that up. All that was said was that Toriyama initially thought of SSJ as a 10x boost, but it never became official. Also your own 2-3x multiplier is not official either.



kuartus4	Oct 19 2013, 10:34 PM Post #30
Posts: 248 Group: Member Member #9,157 Joined: March 8, 2013	" Gohan invites Piccolo to the tournament. Gohan is aware that Goku/Vegeta will be participating by this point. Gohan wants to win the tournament. Gohan wants to fight the tournament in Base. Vegeta says he will win the tournament in Base and doesn't change his mind when he see Piccolo." Gohan wants to win, but he actually says he may not win. Nowhere does gohan say he will win the tournament. Piccolo knew nothing of the no ssj rule. He though he would be facing ssj's at the tournament. He still entered. By your logic piccolo>ssj gohan. Vegeta did not even know piccolo was participating in the tournament when he agreed to the no ssj rule. For all you know, he did change his mind about the no ssj rulewhen he saw piccolo there. The no ssj is not some unbreakable law. Goten, trunks and Mr. No ssj himself broke the rule. I don't see why vegeta would not if faced against piccolo or 18



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