SSJ mutiplier and the Base Saiyans.

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SSJ mutiplier and the Base Saiyans.
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 19 2013, 03:55 PM (2,360 Views)
Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 03:55 PM Post #1
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	I keep hearing fans say that the SSJ multiplier is x50 despite all the evidence going against it. The SSJ multiplier is not static. Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P3.1 Context: after Babidi measures Super Saiyan Goku's energy as 3,000 kiri Babidi: "...Is this measuring device malfunctioning...? But if he really is 3,000 kiri... Then Yakon can't win against him... Yakon's energy is 800 kiri..." Base Goku was a lot stronger than Yakon. So if the SSJ multiplier was x50 then how can he only be 3000 kiri while Yakon is 800 kiri. This shows that at this point the SSJ multiplier for Goku was only x2 or x3. Plus it is indirectly and directly shown that Base Goku, Vegeta and Gohan were stronger than Piccolo. So we can say that all three had a SSJ multiplier of x2 or x3 since they were all grouped together to fight Yakon and Pui Pui. Now people keep saying that Base Goten and Trunks were only around Android 18 and as SSJ's were giving Gohan and Vegeta a hard time so how can Base Gohan and Base Vegeta be stronger than Piccolo . This just proves again that the SSJ multiplier is not static and shows that for Goten and Trunks the SSJ multiplier wasn't x2 or x3 but bigger. Lets say x10. therefore in Base are only around Android 18 while the Base Adults are stronger than Piccolo who's leagues above Android 18. This should also clear up the misunderstanding with explaining why Base Gogtea > Base Gotenks (post) > SSJ Gotenks (pre). Fans say how can Gogeta be stronger than Gotenks (post) if he didn't do any training some fans try to argue back saying that the fusion multiplier is not static. But that makes no sense because Gogeta never done any training to improve it so doesn't explain why Gogeta magically has a bigger fusion multiplier without doing training. The reason he is stronger is that the SSJ multiplier is not static. Base Adults > > Base Kids (post) > > > > > Base Kids (pre) ~ Android 18 ^ same thing as Base Gogeta > > Base Gotenks (post) > > > > > Base Gotenks (pre) Edited by Zenet, Oct 19 2013, 03:56 PM.



SSJ	Oct 19 2013, 04:06 PM Post #2
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	The Kiri meter is not a smart interpretation of the SSJ multiplier in my opinion. Goku could have easily been suppressed, and also Yakon was around equal to base Goku. How is it indirectly shown that Goku, Vegeta and Gohan were stronger than Piccolo in base? Gohan was weaker than Piccolo in base in the Cell Games, and he only got weaker since then. Goku is barely stronger than Kid Gohan, so there is no way he can be stronger than Piccolo.



Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 04:17 PM Post #3
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Goku was dominating Yakon. Dodging and kicking him in the face and its not implied SSJ Goku was suppressed. Base Kid Gohan's power is never mentioned. I like to think that AT didn't have this mentality during the Cell Arc. But thought of the idea for the Buu arc. For Base Gohan and Vegeta > Piccolo Gohan invites Piccolo to the tournament. Gohan is aware that Goku/Vegeta will be participating by this point. Gohan wants to win the tournament. Gohan wants to fight the tournament in Base. Vegeta says he will win the tournament in Base and doesn't change his mind when he see Piccolo.



SSJ	Oct 19 2013, 04:21 PM Post #4
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	So you're trying to tell me that you think the base saiyans increased so much that they are now stronger than Cell Games Piccolo? That could put them on 50% SSJ Goku's level from the Cell Games which is just ridiculous. It is made out to seem like Goku and Majin Vegeta were barely stronger than Kid Gohan was, so there is no way they could be that powerful in base.



Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 04:39 PM Post #5
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Yeah because Goku and Vegeta Base form got much stronger due to training so AT implied that Base Goku and Vegeta (Boo arc) now had a SSJ multiplier of x2 or x3 in my opening post which is smaller than there Cell Games multiplier. Lets say x10. So doesn't affect the statement about SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta being barely stronger than Kid Gohan. Edited by Zenet, Oct 19 2013, 04:41 PM.



lunar2	Oct 19 2013, 05:17 PM Post #6
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	piccolo's power at the cell games is never stated. we know piccolo >>> #18, but that's all we know. we know restricted base trunks ~ #18. so we know that unrestricted base trunks > #18, at least. it is possible, though not directly supported, that unrestricted base trunks > piccolo.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


+ Majin Vegeta	Oct 19 2013, 05:43 PM Post #7
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	The Kiri point is filler and it doesn't shown anything at all Goku was equal to Yakon in base at 800 Kiri he could very well surpessing he's energy and we know that Piccolo being weaker than Base Saiynas?not sure about that one how can Base Goku who was a tad stronger than Base Gohan CG been above Piccolo in Buu saga when he should have powered up a bit?non of the base saiyans should really be above Piccolo in my opinion
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


lunar2	Oct 19 2013, 05:52 PM Post #8
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	Vegeta SSj4 Oct 19 2013, 05:43 PM The Kiri point is filler and it doesn't shown anything at all Goku was equal to Yakon in base at 800 Kiri he could very well surpessing he's energy and we know that Piccolo being weaker than Base Saiynas?not sure about that one how can Base Goku who was a tad stronger than Base Gohan CG been above Piccolo in Buu saga when he should have powered up a bit?non of the base saiyans should really be above Piccolo in my opinion the kili meter is not filler. only the line about 300 kili being needed to destroy a planet is fillier. goku was not heavily suppressed. no one has ever generated a steady aura without using the majority of their power, goku didn't suddenly develop an ability he never had before without us being told about it. that's just baseless speculation. @ piccolo we don't know how powerful piccolo was at the cell games. the base saiyans may well have already surpassed him. he only went in the rosat once, after all, and he didn't even have a sparring partner. if he was already weaker than the base saiyans, it would be a simple matter for them to stay ahead.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


+ Majin Vegeta	Oct 19 2013, 05:56 PM Post #9
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	There's no way Base Gohan CG Gohan would be able to beat someone like Piccolo CG Piccolo was even mentioned to be able to have a change on him before the cell games!and Goku Buu saga is barely above CG Kid Gohan thus he should be weaker than Piccolo Buu saga since he must have been powered up even a little at those 7 years
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 06:00 PM Post #10
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Quote: Yeah because Goku and Vegeta Base form got much stronger due to training so AT implied that Base Goku and Vegeta (Boo arc) now had a SSJ multiplier of x2 or x3 in my opening post which is smaller than there Cell Games multiplier. Lets say x10. So doesn't affect the statement about SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta being barely stronger than Kid Gohan.



lunar2	Oct 19 2013, 06:09 PM Post #11
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	Vegeta SSj4 Oct 19 2013, 05:56 PM There's no way Base Gohan CG Gohan would be able to beat someone like Piccolo CG Piccolo was even mentioned to be able to have a change on him before the cell games!and Goku Buu saga is barely above CG Kid Gohan thus he should be weaker than Piccolo Buu saga since he must have been powered up even a little at those 7 years no, piccolo was specifically stated not to have a chance against cell. cg piccolo was not a major player by any measuring stick.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 09:12 PM Post #12
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	This is all I have to say. There are more speaking for Piccolo than against him. If AT intended the Saiyans to be stronger than Piccolo in Base by the time Boo arc started, then Piccolo would be a huge plothole.
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Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 09:16 PM Post #13
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	I pointed that out Emmeth on the opening post. Quote: Now people keep saying that Base Goten and Trunks were only around Android 18 and as SSJ's were giving Gohan and Vegeta a hard time so how can Base Gohan and Base Vegeta be stronger than Piccolo . This just proves again that the SSJ multiplier is not static and shows that for Goten and Trunks the SSJ multiplier wasn't x2 or x3 but bigger. Lets say x10. therefore in Base are only around Android 18 while the Base Adults are stronger than Piccolo who's leagues above Android 18. Edited by Zenet, Oct 19 2013, 09:17 PM.



+ Emmeth	Oct 19 2013, 09:19 PM Post #14
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Sage Oct 19 2013, 09:16 PM I pointed that out Emmeth on the opening post. Quote: Now people keep saying that Base Goten and Trunks were only around Android 18 and as SSJ's were giving Gohan and Vegeta a hard time so how can Base Gohan and Base Vegeta be stronger than Piccolo . This just proves again that the SSJ multiplier is not static and shows that for Goten and Trunks the SSJ multiplier wasn't x2 or x3 but bigger. Lets say x10. therefore in Base are only around Android 18 while the Base Adults are stronger than Piccolo who's leagues above Android 18. There are official multipliers. You can't just change them willy-nilly.
	My Twitch Page


Zenet	Oct 19 2013, 09:27 PM Post #15
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Its not official. Its goes from x50 then said to decrease to x10 in an interview and finally shown to be either x2 or x3 threw statements. Officially what is said is Base Saiyans > Piccolo. That's not a plot hole.



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