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| Definition of Elite Quaterback/Player | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 19 2013, 01:16 AM (2,499 Views) | |
| Pookie | Oct 19 2013, 01:16 AM Post #1 |
Pookie Powa!
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I am bringing this debate here because this way we don't ruin the other topic.
You're allowing your biased opinion to take over your judgement. I never said Alex Smith was a bad quarterback or the fact that he wasn't a factor on the 49ers team. HOWEVER, I think that the players that he had around him were a BIG influence on him being solid. He even had the legendary RANDY MOSS on his team. He is not an elite YET and don't kid yourself. If we are putting Alex Smith in that category, you might as well put Tony Romo or Jay Cutler who have YET to prove anything.
If you're talking about the Steelers and Ben, he has already proven himself twice. He has won TWO Superbowls, and he did it VERY EARLY in his career.
Hypocrite how? I'm a hypocrite because I won't categorize Alex Smith in the elite category because he hasn't proven it yet? You sir have lost some of your marbles. Both Lawrence Tayler and Ray Lewis are legendary players in their positions. They were elite because they won championships and were the FOUNDATION of their teams. It's what matters in this league. I hate to burst your bubble, but nobody ever remembers 2nd place.
What point are you trying to make here?
Are you really going to compare Barry Sanders to Alex Smith who play completely different positions? Barry Sanders was an elite because he was a running back who broke records and carried his team ON his back much like Peterson does today. What record has Alex Smith broken? What has he done in his career to say WOW? What has he done besides go to the NFC Championship game ONLY to lose a game everyone was certain the 49ers would win. The bottom line is, when it is all said and done, people look at championships. A quarterback is the center piece of a team. If we compare Peyton to Tom Brady, who would you say was better? Tom brady. Why? He has three superbowl rings. This argument will never change. It won't change. Dan Marino was an elite quarterback because he broke records. At the end of the day, when people describe Dan Marino, they say this: "He is the best quarterback to NEVER win a superbowl." You know what that tells me? It tells me that if he had won a superbowl, he'd be ranked much higher than he was. He is known for not winning a superbowl because that IS what matters. It is extremely important because that is what teams play for. |
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| Pookie | Oct 20 2013, 11:21 PM Post #16 |
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Pookie Powa!
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Trust me there is no emotion coming out of me. I am laughing at how poorly both Fulgore and yourself respond to my points. You ignore every single fact, including pictures, that I place. The only thing you can do is pretend to dissect my quotes and try to make it contradictory. The points I am arguing just to clear this up. 1. Eli is an elite (Deion Sanders says it. However, Volt knows more than a Pro Bowl Hall of famer.) 2. Superbowls are a big factor in deciding if someone is an elite and/or better because when it is all said and done, you don't get paid to not win. 3. Alex Smith hasn't earned any sort of elite status including gaming management 4. You have double standard in your eyes for Elite.
Didn't even bother reading anything else you said because you honestly don't read anything I say. You try to dissect my quotes that have been supporting my entire argument that superbowls victories ARE important. To make it much simpler for you, my whole argument is that superbowls are important in separating an elite quarterback from a good quarterback. Once again both Fulgore and yourself, didn't even answer my question. You say Alex Smith is an elite, game managing quarterback right? Well I said he needed something to show for it. Unlike Alex Smith, Dan Marino does have an AFC Championship of some sort. ![:=]:](http://b1.ifrm.com/1500/25/0/e1137/e1137.gif) Is it not true that Dan Marino wouldn't have been ranked higher if he had won a superbowl? Both Fulgore and yourself HAVE YET to answer my question about HOW MANY quarterbacks, with MULTI WINNING SUPERBOWLS, are not in the HOF ?  This is the third time I've asked, yet no response other then telling me what I have already written.
Yup, that is exactly what I am saying. Tom brady or Peyton? Tom Brady. Why? He has three superbowls wins. You tell me how it isn't important.  You know what's disgusting? It's disgusting that both fulgore and yourself will put anyone on the 49ers on an ELITE level when they haven't EARNED it yet. This to me is disgusting.
Eli Manning beat Brett Favre if I remember correctly. Isn't that the argument you used about Alex Smith? Please, Volt, spare me. When it comes down to facts, you're totally out gunned. Since both Fulgore and yourself refuse to read anything, I have to make sure I put this question several times so that you can finally respond to it. Oh I guess Deion Sanders doesn't know jack because he said Eli manning was Elite. 
Let me put this in a bigger format so that you guys can finally answer the question. HOW MANY quarterbacks, with MULTI WINNING SUPERBOWLS, are not in the HOF ? If you're in the HOF, it means you're an elite. In conclusion, if a quarterback does win more than one, it does make a quarterback ELITE end of story. I just enjoy how every fact I put is ignored, yet all Fulgore and yourself can do is try to point out something that isn't there. You try to dissect a quote that basically supports my entire argument. I had to repeat myself again because both of you don't read anything. Edited by Pookie, Oct 20 2013, 11:41 PM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 20 2013, 11:39 PM Post #17 |
The Darkness Returns
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Alex Smith beat Eli Manning...guess he's elite too Also, Joe Namath is not elite and he somehow found his way into the HoF. So no, HoF = doesn't mean you're elite. It just means you were popular Edited by Fulgore, Oct 20 2013, 11:45 PM.
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| Pookie | Oct 20 2013, 11:44 PM Post #18 |
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Pookie Powa!
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Oh boy...When was this? It certainly wasn't recently. edit: Nevermind, I forgot about the Kansas City Chiefs. You're right about that Fulgore. He did beat Eli Manning once in his career when the Giants are at their lowest. He also had a coach that knows the Giants inside and out. I mean that had nothing to do with it though. @Fulgore- It's not my fault Volt used that as his argument. He tried to say that Alex Smith went toe to toe with Drew Brees. However, the two of you ignore that Eli went toe to toe with tom brady, brett favre, and aaron rodgers. So when you two use an argument like that its valid, but when I do, it has no validation? Right. Edited by Pookie, Oct 20 2013, 11:47 PM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 20 2013, 11:46 PM Post #19 |
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The Darkness Returns
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That's all you've done is cite how he's beat x QBs. Volt fired back that he man-handled Brees in a shootout (Which btw, was considered to be the best game of the playoffs) Pretty sure the giant's at their LOWEST is right now. 0-6. http://www.footballdb.com/boxscore/2011111313 <-- 27-20. Most Giants fans like to forget that Before your fabled muff punt return x2 Field goal miracle that you got beat. (Beat Eli-manning 4 quarter comeback style btw) Edited by Fulgore, Oct 20 2013, 11:51 PM.
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Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| Pookie | Oct 20 2013, 11:50 PM Post #20 |
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Pookie Powa!
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Every game that Eli Manning has outplayed other quarterbacks you guys completely ignore. However, when you used Alex Smith going toe to toe with Drew Brees, it was accepted and legit? Get out of here with that double standard. Eli Manning in comparison to Alex Smith. Do you really want to go there Fulgore? Okay, here you go. http://blogs.nfl.com/2013/01/28/elite-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl/ Tell me how many times Alex Smith appears on the list in comparison to Eli Manning. I'll give you a moment. @Fulgore- Which Further proves my point that Alex Smith beat Eli Manning when the Giants are horrible. It was the only reason. I did forget about that game. You want to know why? It didn't matter because we ended up winning the superbowl that season. Edited by Pookie, Oct 20 2013, 11:55 PM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 20 2013, 11:57 PM Post #21 |
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The Darkness Returns
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Give it another month. The Eli sucks articles will start pouring out. 0-6.. Pray he doesnt hit 0-8 or I'll have enough ammo to burry Eli manning for the rest of his career. He had a few great seasons, but he's not elite. 0-6 after he's been 'established' by 'experts' as elite prove that 15 interpcetions? Guess the rest of his team is throwing the football for him |
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| Pookie | Oct 21 2013, 12:04 AM Post #22 |
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Pookie Powa!
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There have been Eli Manning sucks articles since he came into the league. It's nothing new. I'm hoping the Giants go 0-16 so we can get some good draft picks and get rid of some old players we have. We can start to rebuild around a quarterback that can win in the post season. Didn't Peyton Manning have seasons where he went 4-12? He completely blew his opportunities in the post season. You're going to bury a quarterback for having a bad season that an entire team is at fault for? You certainly weren't ready to bury Alex Smith in those forgotten 49er years. You just want to bury Eli Manning for the simple fact that you're jealous or simply a "hater."
Edited by Pookie, Oct 21 2013, 12:07 AM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 21 2013, 12:06 AM Post #23 |
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The Darkness Returns
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0-8 makes Eli Manning the worst Super bowl winning QB in history. You know the most consecutive losses by a QB? 8. Dan Orlovsky of the 2008 Detroit Lions. That poor kid got benched. Eli? Might go 0-16 and be the only QB to ever lose 16 consecutive games. I don't hate Eli, but I hate that he's being called elite when he's not. If he was he'd be throwing COMPLETIONS TO THE RIGHT TEAM He's on pace to join the 30 hurty Club. 10 other people in the HISTORY of the NFL have thrown 30 interceptions in a season. Edited by Fulgore, Oct 21 2013, 12:09 AM.
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Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| Pookie | Oct 21 2013, 12:13 AM Post #24 |
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Pookie Powa!
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Eli is an elite get over it. He wouldn't be the first elite quarterback to have a bad season. You also forget that he is only 31 years old.
You still didn't even look at the link I posted did you? Eli Manning is on quite a few of those lists, yet you refuse to admit it. Fulgore, you don't watch any Giants games at all. If you did, you would know that a lot of those interceptions aren't his fault. There are some that are, but a lot of them have not been. Randell kept running bad routes, which he got benched for, Myers sucks which I think it was Volt who said it and he didn't catch a pass against the Bears, an interception bounced off a guy's foot in the first game, we are constantly playing from behind, he has absolutely no running game b/c our offensive coordinator refuses to run/be patient with i, and everyone refuses to see this b/c they hate Eli Manning. It has always been like this. When we finally did run the ball, with a washed up Running back who hadn't had a great game since 2007 (sorry Brandon Jacobs), we almost beat the Bears which is what we should have done since game 1. How did Kaepernick do when he didn't have a running game? When they didn't run the ball, you complained about it. It's the same for Eli Manning, but of course when things go wrong, it's just Eli Manning's fault. Right. You, out of everyone, should know this. You've been watching the NFL how long? It's not always the quarterback's fault and in this case, I don't blame Eli Manning. Edited by Pookie, Oct 21 2013, 12:16 AM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 21 2013, 01:21 AM Post #25 |
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So a few of his 15 interceptions were not his fault? Great. The rest of them are. He's made stupid throws instead of taking hits like a RESPONSIBLE QB.(See Alex Smith) |
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Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| Pookie | Oct 21 2013, 02:11 AM Post #26 |
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Pookie Powa!
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Okay, Fulgore there is no need to argue with you anymore if you're going to compare Alex Smith to Eli Manning. Eli Manning does take hits when he needs too, but he is also someone who wants to make plays happen. The reason he throws interceptions is because he is the type of quarterback that wants to win. Most of the Giants' games this season have been playing from behind and with no running game. Since you can't reason and have already compared Alex Smith to Eli Manning, this conversation is just done. You can't compare the two. There is no comparison to be made. Is that why Eli Manning has a better average QB rating than Alex Smith? He may not have the best regular season numbers, but in the post season he is far better than his brother and Alex Smith can't touch him. Eli Manning > Alex Smith Get over it Alex Smith
Eli Manning
Aw, I'm sorry Fulgore that Alex Smith isn't on any of those top lists that I posted with the link. 
Edited by Pookie, Oct 21 2013, 02:14 AM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 21 2013, 02:24 AM Post #27 |
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I made a comparison of alex smith to eli sarcastically to bring your "Oh this makes someone elite" to your attention every-time a counter point is brought up. Oh, and a responsible QB. OH yeah, i meant that. Eli is f***ing horrible at being responsible with the ball. 
Edited by Fulgore, Oct 21 2013, 02:28 AM.
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Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| Pookie | Oct 21 2013, 02:29 AM Post #28 |
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Pookie Powa!
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You're saying Eli Manning is not elite and the only reason you can come up with is that he is doing poorly this season on a team that is doing poorly. He throws a lot of interceptions this season and that makes him the worst ever like you've mentioned in other topics. Right. Why Eli Manning is elite: -Has broken some records at the age of 31 (most 4th quarter comebacks) -Has the numbers to back it up -Has defeated some memorable quarterbacks even though it was a team effort -Has two superbowls (no multi winning superbowl quarterback has been thought otherwise) Alex Smith is not elite anything because -He SIMPLY hasn't proven it yet Your reason for Eli not being elite: -His interceptions this year on a struggling, bad Giants' team Your reason for Alex Smith being an elite managing quaterback: -Superbowls don't mean anything -He went toe to toe with Drew Brees I think that's about what I got from this topic. Edit: Fulgore you're so desperate to prove that you're right. Look at the amount of attempts Eli Manning has in comparison to Alex Smith. Get out of here with that LOL. Eli Manning attempts in the last two seasons are double that of Alex Smith. Edited by Pookie, Oct 21 2013, 02:35 AM.
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| Fulgore | Oct 21 2013, 02:39 AM Post #29 |
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The Darkness Returns
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5 times his interceptions this year, too. How bout that. Alex smith is also about to be leading his team to undefeated into week 8. Anyway, since you're done sidetracking(You do this everytime) Eli manning cannot carry his team, he's not elite. NO ELITE QB WOULD BE 0-6. EVER. No hall of famer QB has ever been 0-6 ever. I 100% blame Eli for not being able to muster up enough accuracy to not throw 3 picks a game. This alone means he's not clutch, he has no consistency (unless you count throwing picks..he's got a long track record of throwing picks. one season under 10? LOL) Eli manning throws the ball down field and prays. He's always done it, and most of his miracle catches reflect that. God help him if he had to lace a throw into coverage Edited by Fulgore, Oct 21 2013, 02:43 AM.
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Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| Pookie | Oct 21 2013, 02:46 AM Post #30 |
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Pookie Powa!
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You can't spell Elite without Eli. I sidetrack because you want to make every player on the 49ers an elite player and the best thing ever when they haven't proven jack crap yet. I get side tracked when you say players like Russel Wilson are overrated or are in a sophomore slump. This to me is enough for me to say that you can't admit anyone is good unless they are/were on your team.  vs.  Don't ever compare Alex Smith to Eli Manning again until Alex Smith actually does something because even Kerry Collins, who isn't an elite BY ANY MEANS, has an NFC championship win. Thanks. Peace Edited by Pookie, Oct 21 2013, 02:54 AM.
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