- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- Dragon Ball
- →
- Dragon Ball/Z Discussion
- →
- My dbz power level list
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| My dbz power level list | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 18 2013, 09:55 PM (1,715 Views) | |
| kuartus4 | Oct 19 2013, 04:53 AM Post #16 |
|
Yah, I saw that, and responded to it. Piccolo is taking Goku's word for it that he can't defeat cell(goku that is). Piccolo is not much better than what he knows of goku. Connect the dots buddy. Edit: @Brofist, "Note: Gohan says it’s the ‘same ki’ (onaji ki), rather than the ‘same amount of ki’ (onaji gurai no ki). I bolded and enlarged the important stuff here." Gohan does NOT say, 'same TYPE of ki' either. That's your intepretation. "Statement above would beg to differ." Herms is merely noting that the word " amount" is not in the dialogue. That does not automatically mean it is reffering to 'type' of ki, which still doesn't make sense. Godly ki would be an example of another 'type' of ki. SSJ ki is not another type of ki. "Herms is directly noting the difference between saying "Same ki" and "same amount of ki"" He is noting only the fact that the word "amount" is not in the Japanese dialogue. He's not saying "same ki" necessarily means something different from "same amount of ki" In fact it can mean the exact same thing: Chapter 338 (DBZ 144), P9.6-7, P10.1 Context: the androids mistake Yamcha for Goku No.20: “A human with an unusually high energy rating is heading this way…Is the search system malfunctioning?” No.19: “It’s not a malfunction, No.20. I’m noting the same energy.” Same 'type' of energy? No, same amount of energy, even though the word amount is not in the dialogue, just like the gohan quote. Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P3.1 Goku: “Trunks’ ki is just a little bit bigger...Your ki both have to be exactly the same to perform Fusion. Trunks, suppress your ki a little bit and make yourself even with Goten.” Your ki have to be the same"type"? No, its obvious here that even though, the word "amount" is not in there, he is referring to them having exactly the same amount of ki even though he is saying they have to have the same ki. "This is especially obvious when Goku can hear that Trunks instantly dealt with Freeza and then remark that he wasn't even being serious either. Obviously you'd think Goku would've questioned the notion if Trunks could honestly have done it if he was only around Freeza's level of power, much less if Trunks was suppressed. " Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P1.4 Goku: “Well at any rate, who was it who defeated Freeza? That was an incredible ki. Was it Piccolo? Or Vegeta?” Goku sensed friezes ki from space, and he was about to use Instant Transmission to meet frieza, but didnt because he felt trunks show up to stop frieza. And he felt friezes ki die out since he knew frieza had been defeated when no one had told him. But then he would have also sensed that frieza wasn't at full power. Since he was also able to sense trunks ki from outer space, he would have had no trouble believing trunks instakilled suppressed mecha frieza. Edited by kuartus4, Oct 19 2013, 10:12 AM.
|
 |
 
|
| + Majin Vegeta | Oct 19 2013, 08:58 AM Post #17 |
The resident GT fan!
|
Good list though it needs some improvements  By the way you have USSj a 2.5x times SSj and SSj2 over 2x times lower  ?
|
 "Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta | |
|
|
|
| kuartus4 | Oct 19 2013, 09:05 AM Post #18 |
|
Just 1.25x lower than USSJ. SSJ2 has the right balance between speed and power, while ussj doesn't, so ssj2 is still better even though it is slightly lower power wise. |
|
|
|
| + Majin Vegeta | Oct 19 2013, 09:07 AM Post #19 |
|
The resident GT fan!
|
So you think that SSj2 is weaker than Ultra SSj but its just that SSj2 has amazing balance bettwen Speed and power right?well I'm not sure about this I think that SSj2 is still above USSj but that's just me 
|
|
"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta | |
|
|
|
| EMIYA | Oct 19 2013, 01:00 PM Post #20 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
KP has already disproven your point on that with the MSSJs.
This is not a comparison between two kis, this is a note on a single ki reading and that both No. 19 and No. 20 are sensing that same exact person. It is not the same thing
Once more this is not the same thing, the first quote spoke of a specific person, this quote specifically speaks of ki size. Hence the "Ki is just a little bit bigger."
Goku states that Trunks could instantly defeat Freeza.
Freeza notes that if Cold heps, they defeat SSJ Goku, something he isn't even entirely sure on alone. Meaning that Freeza>~King Cold. I'd like to point out the part where Cold gets his attacked casually stopped by Trunks and decimated.
Trunks has enough confidence and considering the *** whooping he gave Cold and the several statements of "instantly defeating Freeza" one of them by Goku no less, pretty much dictates this point. Whether or not Freeza decided to fight at full power has no meaning because its made perfectly clear that Trunks was superior in every way. This was proven though the aspect of statements that Trunks could defeat Freeza instantly. Goku himself says that, he personally says "You defeated Freeza instantly" a guy who knows Freeza's power better than anyone. Goku doesn't question it, he doesn't wonder, he doesn't bring up the fact that Freeza was suppressed or not. He outright states, "You defeated Freeza instantly" and that's all that had to be said. King Cold is directly noted by statements to be on a rivaling level of some sort to Freeza, as noted by Freeza himself saying Cold could help him defeat Goku. This same Cold got absolutely annihilated by Trunks.
See this is where you're wrong, because Herms isn't just noting that the word isn't in there. There are several points in the manga where ki is used, however this is the only time Herms notes that the reference to ki is not talking about amount. There are several times both before and after, that ki in terms of size is used, but here, Herms is making a very distinctive notion on the fact that Gohan is saying that Trunks has the same ki as Goku, not the same amount of ki. There'd be no reason to make this distinction if this wasn't the case. And as KP said, Super Saiyans do have unique ki so that argument is out of the window. Once more, you've got several statements and feats showing Trunks' superiority on a massive scale. Edited by EMIYA, Oct 19 2013, 10:58 PM.
|
|
|
|
| kuartus4 | Oct 19 2013, 10:12 PM Post #21 |
|
" KP has already disproven your point on that with the MSSJs." I assume KP is Darth pryus. And he didn't. Piccolo notes mssj goku & gohan have a slightly different atmosphere. He's talking about their mood and demeanor. They are not ACTING like they are super saiyans. It has nothing to do with having different ki. That is not stated anywhere. "This is not a comparison between two kis, this is a note on a single ki reading and that both No. 19 and No. 20 are sensing that same exact person. It is not the same thing" We at not talking about situations. We are talking about wording. You are arguing the wording in the gohan quote implies a different meaning. I'm saying, ' not necessarily'. The android quote employs the same wording yet means the same thing thing as 'same amount of energy'. The situation is not important. The wording is. We are talking about meanings here. "this quote specifically speaks of ki size. Hence the 'ki is just a little bit bigger.'" Again, word choice. Its no different than the gohan quote. Only difference is that the context for this fusion quote makes it clear the 'same ki' is talking about amount. This means 'same ki' does not HAVE TO mean something different. That's my only point. "Goku states that Trunks could instantly defeat Freeza." If you wanna get technical, goku states trunks DID instantly defeat frieza. He is just pointing out a historical fact, not making a specific power statement. And the point you ignored in my last post is that goku was sensing everything that was happening on earth from outer space before he arrived. He knew frieza was on earth and was about to Instant transmission to frieza's ki location before trunks showed up. Which means goku would be perfectly aware frieza was suppressed, just like gohan knew. And since goku also sensed trunks ki from outer space, he would have no trouble seeing how trunks was responsible for eliminating the ki belonging to frieza. "Freeza notes that if Cold heps, they defeat SSJ Goku, something he isn't even entirely sure on alone. Meaning that Freeza>~King Cold. I'd like to point out the part where Cold gets his attacked casually stopped by Trunks and decimated." King cold doesn't need to be anywhere near mecha frieza just because frieza though he would help. Vegeta though they could surely defeat first form frieza if he, krillin and gohan worked together. Frieza was at 530 k, vegeta was below that at around 460 k, and krillin and gohan were arguably below 50 k, much much weaker than vegeta or frieza. This is a situating where all three fighters are below their enemy, with two way way weaker, and the frieza situation is one where it is thought one of the fighters is equal if not slightly stronger than their enemy goku. The help doesn't need to be anywhere near the main contenders. "Trunks has enough confidence and considering the *** whooping he gave Cold and the several statements of "instantly defeating Freeza" one of them by Goku no less, pretty much dictates this point." Trunks didn't know how powerful yardrat goku was, so why would he know how powerful mecha frieza was at full power? He underestimated goku,he said so himself, and he could have underestimated full power mecha frieza. He probably didn't even know how strong mecha frieza was at full power. So he was probably luring frieza into leaving himself vulnerable while powering up, giving him a clear shot at slicing and dicing frieza. "Goku doesn't question it, he doesn't wonder, he doesn't bring up the fact that Freeza was suppressed or not" But he did know, and also knew how strong trunks was, so there is no need to question anything, or give every detail. Your point is moot. "because Herms isn't just noting that the word isn't in there" Actually, yeah that is all he is noting. Let me try to explain this. Hermes is noting that "amount" is not in the Japanese. He points this out because if the word amount is not there, then the quote does NOT NEED TO refer to amount. I agree with that actually. But this is my point, and I'll bold it: Just because the quote does not need to refer to amount linguistically speaking, does not mean it CANNOT be reffering to amount. Herms merely makes the distinction, because he thinks it is relevant to how we intepret the quote. He himself is not giving any particular interpretation. That's up to you. All I'm saying, which I backed up with other quotes, is that we don't need to interpret it differently from amount. But maybe we won't settle this. So someone should go and ask the guy for clarification. Its the only sure way to clear this up. Asking the man himself. |
|
|
|
| + Pyrus | Oct 20 2013, 03:59 AM Post #22 |
 
|
Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P9.1 Context: as Vegeta and Goku fight as Super Saiyan 2s Trunks: “He-hey, what is this? It’s a super-duper astounding ki…Who is it?...Is it papa and the others?” Goten: “I-I can’t tell…” But before that... Vizbig vol.8, pg.126 Context: Videl just finished explaining why the adults left to Goten and Trunks Goten: "That way, right?!" Trunks: "Yeah, I feel their chi!!" My noggin hurts from all of these damn waffles! I mean, you could also look at Kaioshin explaining that Super Saiyan is "light energy," if you wanted some Eggos. Edited by Pyrus, Oct 20 2013, 04:05 AM.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 5:03 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy