Pui Pui vs Android 20 (post absorptions)

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Pui Pui vs Android 20 (post absorptions)
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 15 2013, 09:39 PM (2,561 Views)
kuartus4	Oct 17 2013, 03:05 AM Post #46
Posts: 248 Group: Member Member #9,157 Joined: March 8, 2013	Darth Pyrus Oct 17 2013, 01:46 AM I will sue you, and I have some things to say, man! First, you're welcome to think Kaioshin is unreliable, but you may be going at it from an inaccurate standpoint. He admitted he was inferior to Goku at the outset of the Tenkaichi Budokai, and still worried for his safety against opponents such as Pui-Pui and Yakon, the latter of which is factually stronger than him. The use of gravity for Pui-Pui isn't an indicator that he's only around those who lived in such gravity - it was merely something to perpetuate the large underestimation of the fighters he had been tasked to face, whom Babidi and Dabura merely thought were humans or beings of the lower world; thus if unnatural gravity was applied to someone of that kin, it would presumably leave the guy who was born in it quite advantaged. That is why Pui-Pui made a big deal out of the gravity change. Leaving Kaioshin at such a high tier of power is something I'd advise against, not only for the reasons I mentioned above pertaining to the Budokai and Yakon, but because survival feats in general in the saga in question are rather numerous; i.e. Base Trunks surviving Evil Boo's punch, Vegeta surviving Pure Boo's onslaught twice, Good Boo surviving said Boo's onslaught, and there are more examples. Kaioshin did admit goku was superior to him, but I think that should take a back seat to the evidence of him not being able to accurately judge PL's. He cant tell yakon is no match for goku. If he was any good at power levels he would have seen that instead of assuming they needed to gang up on him. Gohan saw it easily. Kaioshin couldn't.Mind you, I don't think kaioshin was a match for goku, but what I'm saying is that kaioshin didn't know that at the time. Kaioshin has an inferiority complex. All he knows at the time is that goku is the super saiyan that defeated frieza. Something he himself could do in a single blow apparently. Yet he just assumes goku is superior to him. You might say kaioshin was underestimating the saiyans in babadi's ship against yakon. That no longer works after pui pui since he seems to think the saiyans are a big deal after that. Its more logical to assume he was just overestimating yakon based on his reputation and association with babadi, and he just couldn't know any better. The point is that Pui Pui himself lived in 10x gravity and you can only have strength up to a point from such gravity. Why assume pui pui is superiour to other regular inhabitants of that type of gravity? Did he have Access to Dr brief's gravity machines to increase his strength further? Training under 10x gravity can only get you so far. Goku would have never gone greatly beyong his saiyan saga PL without Dr briefs gravity machine. Kaioshin's survival feats are not the only reason to put him that high. He was able to restrain ssj2 gohan, which is an implication of power level because the efficacy of someone's psychic abilities are tied to their strength. For example, chiaotzu could psychically paralyze krillin because their power levels weren't too far removed, yet his psychic paralize technique was no use against nappa, since there was too wide a gap between their strengths. If base saiyans>kaioshin as many believe, then there is no way kaioshins telekinesis would have had any effect on ssj2 gohan. He also did just as well if not slightly better against majin buu than ssj gohan did.



SSJ	Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Post #47
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all.



Goddess Ultimecia	Oct 17 2013, 12:03 PM Post #48
Posts: 10,145 Group: RP Moderator Member #8,473 Joined: October 26, 2012 Gender Male Country None	Judging a person's powerlevel by the amount of gravity they withstand is flawed, Goten before he even entered the Rosat was making Gohan have to try to dodge and then states that Goten could pass him up if he didn't keep up on training, but wait Goten never had never been outside Earth's gravity. So he can't possibly be past Saiyan saga Vegeta.
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kuartus4	Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM Post #49
Posts: 248 Group: Member Member #9,157 Joined: March 8, 2013	SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic @Squall Leonhart, Good point.



+ Emmeth	Oct 17 2013, 01:28 PM Post #50
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	It should be stated that Kaioshin was terrified of Babidi's magic, and quite possibly didn't think of power levels when he deemed Goku 'no chance' against Yakon. The only other mishap I can think of him forgetting about Gohan. All other times, he sensed power levels better than most; ie SSJ3 Goku.
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SSJ	Oct 17 2013, 04:07 PM Post #51
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	kuartus4 Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic So you don't think that was magic when he held down Gohan? How can telekinesis hold somebody down?



+ Emmeth	Oct 17 2013, 04:14 PM Post #52
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:07 PM kuartus4 Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic So you don't think that was magic when he held down Gohan? How can telekinesis hold somebody down? General Blue did it to Goku and Krillin. Let me ask you, SSJ2, why do you think it wasn't telekinesis? Edited by Emmeth, Oct 17 2013, 04:16 PM.
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SSJ	Oct 17 2013, 04:17 PM Post #53
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Emmeth Oct 17 2013, 04:14 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:07 PM kuartus4 Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic So you don't think that was magic when he held down Gohan? How can telekinesis hold somebody down? General Blue did it to Goku and Krillin. Let me ask you, SSJ2, why do you think it wasn't telekinesis? Because it wasn't stated that he could use telekinesis. All we know is Kaioshin can use magic, based on his battle with Boo.



+ Emmeth	Oct 17 2013, 04:21 PM Post #54
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:17 PM Emmeth Oct 17 2013, 04:14 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:07 PM kuartus4 Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic So you don't think that was magic when he held down Gohan? How can telekinesis hold somebody down? General Blue did it to Goku and Krillin. Let me ask you, SSJ2, why do you think it wasn't telekinesis? Because it wasn't stated that he could use telekinesis. All we know is Kaioshin can use magic, based on his battle with Boo. Well, I'm fairly sure what Kaioshin did was telekinesis. Later on in the series, it is rarely mentioned what attack (that was previously used) is being used by who.
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SSJ	Oct 17 2013, 04:29 PM Post #55
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Emmeth Oct 17 2013, 04:21 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:17 PM Emmeth Oct 17 2013, 04:14 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:07 PM kuartus4 Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic So you don't think that was magic when he held down Gohan? How can telekinesis hold somebody down? General Blue did it to Goku and Krillin. Let me ask you, SSJ2, why do you think it wasn't telekinesis? Because it wasn't stated that he could use telekinesis. All we know is Kaioshin can use magic, based on his battle with Boo. Well, I'm fairly sure what Kaioshin did was telekinesis. Later on in the series, it is rarely mentioned what attack (that was previously used) is being used by who. Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4 Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?” Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!” Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…” Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…” Goku: “…Stop it?” Is telekinesis really related to power though? Kaioshin wonders if he has the ability to stop Gohan's SSJ 2 power. Is means he must not feel strong enough to do it. Wouldn't magic be more power related than telekinesis?



+ Emmeth	Oct 17 2013, 04:31 PM Post #56
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Kaioshin has mystic powers and magic, yes. That might be vital for the power he puts in holding Gohan. It's still telekinesis.
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+ Pyrus	Oct 17 2013, 07:25 PM Post #57
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	People still use Kaioshin's "fight" against Fatty as proof of his power. How many times must I repeat that Boo was stated to be toying with him, whilst he wanted Gohan out of the way? Do I need to ask for a pinned topic for it, eh? Why they do this? Edited by Pyrus, Oct 17 2013, 07:27 PM.
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kuartus4	Oct 17 2013, 10:02 PM Post #58
Posts: 248 Group: Member Member #9,157 Joined: March 8, 2013	SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:29 PM Emmeth Oct 17 2013, 04:21 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:17 PM Emmeth Oct 17 2013, 04:14 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 04:07 PM kuartus4 Oct 17 2013, 12:11 PM SuperSaiyan2 Oct 17 2013, 11:29 AM Power level does not relate to magic at all. Babidi was able to fully control Dabura, and he maybe only had a power level of 10. Kaioshin was no different. His magic does not relate to his power level at all. Telekinesis=/=Magic So you don't think that was magic when he held down Gohan? How can telekinesis hold somebody down? General Blue did it to Goku and Krillin. Let me ask you, SSJ2, why do you think it wasn't telekinesis? Because it wasn't stated that he could use telekinesis. All we know is Kaioshin can use magic, based on his battle with Boo. Well, I'm fairly sure what Kaioshin did was telekinesis. Later on in the series, it is rarely mentioned what attack (that was previously used) is being used by who. Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4 Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?” Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!” Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…” Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…” Goku: “…Stop it?” Is telekinesis really related to power though? Kaioshin wonders if he has the ability to stop Gohan's SSJ 2 power. Is means he must not feel strong enough to do it. Wouldn't magic be more power related than telekinesis? You said it yourself. Magic is not related to power at all. Like how babadi is able to control dabura with his magic even though dabura is like a billion times stronger than him. Kaioshin admits it was quite hard to pin down ssj2 gohan. If he had been using magic instead of telekinekic paralysis, he would have had no problem pinning down gohan and would not have wondered whether he could restrain him. @Darth Pryus, Babadi told Buu to go for the kill with both gohan and kaioshin. Where does it say that he was toying with kaioshin? Babadi specifically wanted buu to kill kaioshin as vengeance for his father bibidi.



+ Pyrus	Oct 17 2013, 10:06 PM Post #59
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8812669&t=8428747
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kuartus4	Oct 17 2013, 10:30 PM Post #60
Posts: 248 Group: Member Member #9,157 Joined: March 8, 2013	Darth Pyrus Oct 17 2013, 10:06 PM http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8812669&t=8428747 If he was toying around, then he was toying around with both of them. Up until he blasted gohan away that is. Kaioshin took the same hit gohan did and then some. Plus kaishin was buu's old enemy. If anything he would be going harder on him than on gohan. Gohan was near death from a simple ki blast, while kaioshin survived buu's explosion attack while being at ground zero. Even piccolo thought he was dead for sure. Your example of trunks surviving super buu's punch is clearly gag. The entire rosat sequence was clearly gag. Kid buu on vegeta. Kid buu is a sadist and was prolonging vegeta's suffering. Kaioshin surviving buu's explosion attack is different. Kaioshin wasn't the target. Majin vegeta was. Kaioshin was just a casualty. No reason for this to not be a valid feat.



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