kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 04:42 AM

Darth Pyrus

Oct 16 2013, 03:44 AM

And I say hey, what a wonderful kind of day!

Kaioshin forgot about Gohan until after Vegeta's fight. Stated.

I won't touch on the other point until next post.

We get to learn to walk and play! And get along with each other!

Um, kaioshin forgot about something that happened an hour earlier?

Seems......... unlikely.

But even if that was the case, kaioshin is still no good at power levels. He had no idea pui pui was no match for vegeta. Goku had no trouble figuring it out.

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 02:54 AM

Pui Pui is being overestimated by quite a bit I think. The guy thought 10x gravity was a big deal. I doubt he is any stronger than saiyan saga vegeta.

Darth Pyrus

Oct 16 2013, 05:06 AM

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 04:42 AM

Darth Pyrus

Oct 16 2013, 03:44 AM

And I say hey, what a wonderful kind of day!

Kaioshin forgot about Gohan until after Vegeta's fight. Stated.

I won't touch on the other point until next post.

We get to learn to walk and play! And get along with each other!

Um, kaioshin forgot about something that happened an hour earlier?

Seems......... unlikely.

But even if that was the case, kaioshin is still no good at power levels. He had no idea pui pui was no match for vegeta. Goku had no trouble figuring it out.

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.5
Context: Vegeta and Goku talk about Dabra not being so tough
Kaioshin: “Un-unbelievable. Is this ‘Super Saiyan’ thing really this great?...Come to think of it, it was quite hard to stop Son Gohan from moving after he became a Super Saiyan…And even that might not have been his full power…”

He had no idea because he underestimated the Saiyans.

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Context: after Goku kills Yakon
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”

Might as well raise you a counter on that garbled gravity argument. Pui-Pui thought he was fighting a human.

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 05:22 AM

Vegeta was one of friezas strongest henchmen wasn't he? Presumably he only used the strongest around. Yet 18,000 was his PL. Most people in the dbz universe are probably relatively weak. Frieza had never encountered someone stronger than captain ginyu ever in his entire galactic empire. Besides his dad King cold I mean.

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 05:22 AM

Nothing there about kaioshin forgetting about gohan going super saiyan 2 at the budokai. He seems to remember it quite well. The "come to think of it" part is kaioshin reflecting on the fact that it was hard to restrain gohan, not him remembering that it happened after forgetting it.

The second quote just reinforces my argument that kaioshin sucks at power levels. He doesn't seem to realize that ssj raises their power! The only way he even realizes it after the yakon incident is because goku was able to make yakon explode by overloading him with an energy burst.

Kaioshin sees ssj2 at the budokai. Kaioshin is worried about pui pui when gohan is right next to him.

Pui Pui>SSJ2 Gohan

LOL!

KING_CROW

Oct 16 2013, 07:13 PM

Gero takes this, just the fact that Vegeta can beat Pui Pui without going super saiyan with almost no effort at all makes me take Gero's side, I fell like Vegeta would have to put a liitle more effort into it to beat Gero

SuperSaiyan2

Oct 16 2013, 07:29 PM

KING_CROW

Oct 16 2013, 07:13 PM

Gero takes this, just the fact that Vegeta can beat Pui Pui without going super saiyan with almost no effort at all makes me take Gero's side, I fell like Vegeta would have to put a liitle more effort into it to beat Gero

Base Vegeta surpassed Gero in the Rosat. He is around as strong as the kids were when they fought Android 18 evenly.

KING_CROW

Oct 16 2013, 07:35 PM

SuperSaiyan2

Oct 16 2013, 07:29 PM

KING_CROW

Oct 16 2013, 07:13 PM

Gero takes this, just the fact that Vegeta can beat Pui Pui without going super saiyan with almost no effort at all makes me take Gero's side, I fell like Vegeta would have to put a liitle more effort into it to beat Gero

Base Vegeta surpassed Gero in the Rosat. He is around as strong as the kids were when they fought Android 18 evenly.

Um, could you please tell me what ROSAT is? LoL I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to all that Zenkai, ROSAT stuff, but from what I've heard I'm guessing its power you receive from a near-death experience

SuperSaiyan2

Oct 16 2013, 07:37 PM

KING_CROW

Oct 16 2013, 07:35 PM

SuperSaiyan2

Oct 16 2013, 07:29 PM

KING_CROW

Oct 16 2013, 07:13 PM

Gero takes this, just the fact that Vegeta can beat Pui Pui without going super saiyan with almost no effort at all makes me take Gero's side, I fell like Vegeta would have to put a liitle more effort into it to beat Gero

Base Vegeta surpassed Gero in the Rosat. He is around as strong as the kids were when they fought Android 18 evenly.

Um, could you please tell me what ROSAT is? LoL I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to all that Zenkai, ROSAT stuff, but from what I've heard I'm guessing its power you receive from a near-death experience

It's the hyperbolic time chamber, where he trained with Trunks.

Darth Pyrus

Oct 16 2013, 05:30 PM

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 05:22 AM

Nothing there about kaioshin forgetting about gohan going super saiyan 2 at the budokai. He seems to remember it quite well. The "come to think of it" part is kaioshin reflecting on the fact that it was hard to restrain gohan, not him remembering that it happened after forgetting it.

The second quote just reinforces my argument that kaioshin sucks at power levels. He doesn't seem to realize that ssj raises their power! The only way he even realizes it after the yakon incident is because goku was able to make yakon explode by overloading him with an energy burst.

Kaioshin sees ssj2 at the budokai. Kaioshin is worried about pui pui when gohan is right next to him.

Pui Pui>SSJ2 Gohan

LOL!

He doesn't seem to realize that Super Saiyan raises their power according to you, but can sense ki (given he obviously knew Gohan's power increased at the Budokai, could tell Goku and Vegeta were fighting equally, and sensed Goku was using Super Saiyan 3 better than Gohan), and would know Gohan could snap Pui-Pui's spine effortlessly according to you.

That's fairly inconsistent.

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 11:30 PM

Darth Pyrus

Oct 16 2013, 05:30 PM

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 05:22 AM

Nothing there about kaioshin forgetting about gohan going super saiyan 2 at the budokai. He seems to remember it quite well. The "come to think of it" part is kaioshin reflecting on the fact that it was hard to restrain gohan, not him remembering that it happened after forgetting it.

The second quote just reinforces my argument that kaioshin sucks at power levels. He doesn't seem to realize that ssj raises their power! The only way he even realizes it after the yakon incident is because goku was able to make yakon explode by overloading him with an energy burst.

Kaioshin sees ssj2 at the budokai. Kaioshin is worried about pui pui when gohan is right next to him.

Pui Pui>SSJ2 Gohan

LOL!

He doesn't seem to realize that Super Saiyan raises their power according to you, but can sense ki (given he obviously knew Gohan's power increased at the Budokai, could tell Goku and Vegeta were fighting equally, and sensed Goku was using Super Saiyan 3 better than Gohan), and would know Gohan could snap Pui-Pui's spine effortlessly according to you.

That's fairly inconsistent.

It is inconsistent. But that's not my fault. Blame AT's bad writing.
The quote implies what it implies. And that's that kaioshin was able to tell that the saiyan transformations gave them tremendous power boosts only after seeing their effects in battle. Not before. Perhaps he could crudely sense that the transformation made them stronger, but didn't know by how much since he is a noob at judging PL's.

Another example is kaioshin being very impressed with ssj gohan after seeing him against dabura, even though, again, he had seen him go ssj2 at the budokai. Kaioshin seems to judge more by what he sees in battle than what he can sense from people just standing there doing nothing like gohan at the budokai.

Sensing ki=/=Judging PL's

They are very much related but not identical, as kaioshin demonstrates.

But anyway, Pui Pui can't be that strong.

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P11.2-3
Context: after he and Vegeta are teleported to Planet Zun
Pui-Pui: “Haah, haah, this is it for you! Th-the gravity here is 10 times that of Earth…! I was raised here!”

He lived in a planet with ten times gravity. I see no reason to make him any stronger than the saiyans who lived in planet vegeta. At most as strong as saiyan saga vegeta. That's being generous since vegeta had far surpassed his saiyan brothers probably due to numerous zenkais.

Kaioshin overestimated babadis's fighters. He assumed they would be a big deal because that's what babadi went for.

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P5.2
Kaioshin: “You mustn’t underestimate your opponent! Babidi gathers only strong warriors from everywhere and makes them his allies!”

Since his perception of them was never actually corrected, base vegeta defeating pui pui with ease naturally led to kaioshin thinking base vegeta was an even bigger deal. Its just one misconception on top of another.
Based on feats I have kaioshin as ssj tier. I would put him around CG Mssj Goku at the least. Heck he survived majin buu's explosion attack againsr vegeta, which left ssj2 vegeta with a broken arm. His concern for babadis fighters the result of him being a poor judge of power and him being a fraidy cat about anything to do with majin buu.

Darth Pyrus

Oct 17 2013, 12:05 AM

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 11:30 PM

Darth Pyrus

Oct 16 2013, 05:30 PM

kuartus4

Oct 16 2013, 05:22 AM

Nothing there about kaioshin forgetting about gohan going super saiyan 2 at the budokai. He seems to remember it quite well. The "come to think of it" part is kaioshin reflecting on the fact that it was hard to restrain gohan, not him remembering that it happened after forgetting it.

The second quote just reinforces my argument that kaioshin sucks at power levels. He doesn't seem to realize that ssj raises their power! The only way he even realizes it after the yakon incident is because goku was able to make yakon explode by overloading him with an energy burst.

Kaioshin sees ssj2 at the budokai. Kaioshin is worried about pui pui when gohan is right next to him.

Pui Pui>SSJ2 Gohan

LOL!

He doesn't seem to realize that Super Saiyan raises their power according to you, but can sense ki (given he obviously knew Gohan's power increased at the Budokai, could tell Goku and Vegeta were fighting equally, and sensed Goku was using Super Saiyan 3 better than Gohan), and would know Gohan could snap Pui-Pui's spine effortlessly according to you.

That's fairly inconsistent.

It is inconsistent. But that's not my fault. Blame AT's bad writing.
The quote implies what it implies. And that's that kaioshin was able to tell that the saiyan transformations gave them tremendous power boosts only after seeing their effects in battle. Not before. Perhaps he could crudely sense that the transformation made them stronger, but didn't know by how much since he is a noob at judging PL's.

Another example is kaioshin being very impressed with ssj gohan after seeing him against dabura, even though, again, he had seen him go ssj2 at the budokai. Kaioshin seems to judge more by what he sees in battle than what he can sense from people just standing there doing nothing like gohan at the budokai.

Sensing ki=/=Judging PL's

They are very much related but not identical, as kaioshin demonstrates.

But anyway, Pui Pui can't be that strong.

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P11.2-3
Context: after he and Vegeta are teleported to Planet Zun
Pui-Pui: “Haah, haah, this is it for you! Th-the gravity here is 10 times that of Earth…! I was raised here!”

He lived in a planet with ten times gravity. I see no reason to make him any stronger than the saiyans who lived in planet vegeta. At most as strong as saiyan saga vegeta. That's being generous since vegeta had far surpassed his saiyan brothers probably due to numerous zenkais.

Kaioshin overestimated babadis's fighters. He assumed they would be a big deal because that's what babadi went for.

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P5.2
Kaioshin: “You mustn’t underestimate your opponent! Babidi gathers only strong warriors from everywhere and makes them his allies!”

Since his perception of them was never actually corrected, base vegeta defeating pui pui with ease naturally led to kaioshin thinking base vegeta was an even bigger deal. Its just one misconception on top of another.
Based on feats I have kaioshin as ssj tier. I would put him around CG Mssj Goku at the least. Heck he survived majin buu's explosion attack againsr vegeta, which left ssj2 vegeta with a broken arm. His concern for babadis fighters the result of him being a poor judge of power and him being a fraidy cat about anything to do with majin buu.

If it's such bad writing, why are you even arguing about it in the first place? Chicken winger!