Pre Majin Vegeta Vs Cell Games Gohan

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Pre Majin Vegeta Vs Cell Games Gohan
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 31 2013, 01:52 AM (3,399 Views)
Alex D. Boss	Aug 31 2013, 02:53 PM Post #31
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	I'm not a fan neither have speculations , I am the truth and its a fact.



+ Yusuke	Aug 31 2013, 03:36 PM Post #32
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Quote: I'm not a fan neither have speculations , I am the truth and its a fact. When was it ever stated that CG Gohan > Pre Majin Vegeta in the manga? It's speculation and it could be debated either way.
	Ask Yusuke


+ Pyrus	Aug 31 2013, 05:12 PM Post #33
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	When it isn't stated otherwise, it's a safe bet..
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Alex D. Boss	Aug 31 2013, 05:15 PM Post #34
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	Gohan is noted to be surpassed only after Piccolo's statement. Therefore , Vegeta only noticed of Gohan being rusty and says that the gap became smaller , no intication of Vegeta surpassing Gohan.



+ Pyrus	Aug 31 2013, 05:30 PM Post #35
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	The first person stated to surpass Kid Gohan was Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Before that, we cannot say anybody else had, otherwise that would throw away the entire point of the statement (like claiming Cell used his full speed against Goku). Vegeta knew Goku was stronger, and Piccolo had more trouble discerning the difference - split the two and it's not a big gap. That's not speculation. That's logical reasoning.
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Legendary Super Saiyan	Aug 31 2013, 05:43 PM Post #36
Posts: 38 Group: Duplicate Member #10,039 Joined: August 31, 2013	Kid Gohan = Pre Majin Vegeta > Pre Majin Vegeta (before the budokai)



+ Yusuke	Aug 31 2013, 07:31 PM Post #37
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Quote: The first person stated to surpass Kid Gohan was Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Before that, we cannot say anybody else had, otherwise that would throw away the entire point of the statement (like claiming Cell used his full speed against Goku). Vegeta knew Goku was stronger, and Piccolo had more trouble discerning the difference - split the two and it's not a big gap. That's not speculation. That's logical reasoning. Well going by your logic, MSS CG Goku > MSS CG Gohan because nobody initally sensed that Gohan was stronger than his father until he fought Cell. See what that does? Like a said a zillion times, we don't know the gap and anything is speculation.
	Ask Yusuke


+ Pyrus	Aug 31 2013, 07:36 PM Post #38
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Yusuke Urameshi Aug 31 2013, 07:31 PM Quote: The first person stated to surpass Kid Gohan was Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Before that, we cannot say anybody else had, otherwise that would throw away the entire point of the statement (like claiming Cell used his full speed against Goku). Vegeta knew Goku was stronger, and Piccolo had more trouble discerning the difference - split the two and it's not a big gap. That's not speculation. That's logical reasoning. Well going by your logic, MSS CG Goku > MSS CG Gohan because nobody initally sensed that Gohan was stronger than his father until he fought Cell. See what that does? Like a said a zillion times, we don't know the gap and anything is speculation. Not exactly. We know Gohan was stronger than Goku the whole time because of later statements. Vegeta lacks any such statements, and the one about Kid Gohan suggests otherwise.
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+ Yusuke	Aug 31 2013, 07:40 PM Post #39
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Quote: Not exactly. We know Gohan was stronger than Goku the whole time because of later statements. Vegeta lacks any such statements, and the one about Kid Gohan suggests otherwise. We only know that Gohan is stronger than Goku when he charges up to fight Cell. Like in the above post, we don't know the gap. Edited by Yusuke, Aug 31 2013, 07:41 PM.
	Ask Yusuke


Saiyan Femme	Aug 31 2013, 07:57 PM Post #40
Posts: 1,683 Group: Member Member #8,569 Joined: November 17, 2012 Favourite Anime DBZ, Card Captor Sakura, Evangelion Favourite Manga Slam Dunk, Fushigi Yugi, Shaman King	When Vegeta first finds out about the 25th Tournament, he wants in and suggests he might win against Gohan since he had been training hard while Gohan hadn't. The way he words it sounds like he's not completely sure, I don't see why he wouldn't be if he had actually reached or surpassed Kid Gohan SSJ2's power. Even before that moment he comments on Gohan losing condition without any training, he can't possibly think Teen Gohan > Kid Gohan.



+ Pyrus	Aug 31 2013, 07:57 PM Post #41
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8514311&t=8371298 Should be interesting.
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+ Yusuke	Aug 31 2013, 08:26 PM Post #42
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Quote: When Vegeta first finds out about the 25th Tournament, he wants in and suggests he might win against Gohan since he had been training hard while Gohan hadn't. The way he words it sounds like he's not completely sure, I don't see why he wouldn't be if he had actually reached or surpassed Kid Gohan SSJ2's power. Even before that moment he comments on Gohan losing condition without any training, he can't possibly think Teen Gohan > Kid Gohan. Vegeta wants in on the tourny so he can (in Vegeta's words) "show that clown Kakorot why he is the Prince of All Saiyans". It has nothing to do with Gohan. Vegeta feels that he can beat Gohan (seeing that he's been training his a*** off in the 7 year gap) when he tells him that he has been slacking off.
	Ask Yusuke


+ Pyrus	Aug 31 2013, 09:21 PM Post #43
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Chapter: 426 (DBZ 232), P4.2-3 Vegeta: “At that time there was a large gap between our powers…But what about now? While you’ve been enjoying peace, I’ve continued to train.” It's very clear by that passage that Vegeta was unsure of where Gohan's power stood at the time. Chapter: 426 (DBZ 232), P7.2-3 Context: after Goku says he’ll enter the tournament Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this. You’d better brace yourself. I’ve improved quite a lot.” Goku: “Me too, Vegeta.” By this, we know Vegeta intended to at least have a good fight with a Goku that was previously much stronger than him and had continued to grow stronger since then. We know by feats and statements that Gohan was likewise much stronger than Goku at the Cell Games, even disregarding Super Saiyan 2. Chapter: 430 (DBZ 236), P6.5-6 Context: after Gohan asks that nobody becomes a Super Saiyan in the tournament Vegeta: “…Well, I guess that’s fine. If nobody becomes a Super Saiyan, then the conditions are the same. My superior position doesn’t change…” Chapter: 438 (DBZ 244), P10.3 Context: after Goku and Vegeta are scheduled to fight in the tournament's first round Vegeta: “I’ve done it! I’m going up against Kakarot…! I’ve waited…How I’ve been waiting for this time! For the day I am victorious over Kakarot…!” By these statements, it can be gathered that Vegeta felt confident in defeating both Goku and Gohan to win the tournament (this is also after the tournament training, if that helps). Undoubtedly, at the very least, Vegeta made it to Goku's Cell Games power, and his winning condition would be skill. The only things we don't know are how strong Vegeta thought Goku would be, and how much weaker he thought Gohan had gotten since killing Cell. In order to figure out the former, we have to go into the future chapters where Vegeta acknowledged Goku's power. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4 Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m gonna end this quickly, at maximum power.” Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2 Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!” Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3 Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…” Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…” Vegeta figured he couldn't measure up to Goku's power during the fight with Yakon, and that was only a burst of Super Saiyan 2. By his statement that full-power Super Saiyan 2 Goku had surpassed Kid Gohan, it'd be logical to assume Goku's display against Yakon hadn't met that minimum, otherwise why comment on it in such a way when Goku transformed for their fight? It'd have been redundant; you can't expect something you already know. With that in mind, we can safely say Vegeta did not think Goku's power would have reached Kid Gohan's until he witnessed it in Babidi's ship. Pre-tournament "Let's see just how strong Goku's gotten, though I'm sure I'm still superior." Babidi's ship "Gah...So that fool really did get a lot stronger than I thought, and that probably wasn't even his full power...I have no choice but to go to Babidi." During their fight "Hmph. I knew he was holding back earlier. I suppose this level of power only makes sense for him considering..." A little something like that might've been his train of thought. There really isn't anything in favor of Vegeta being equal with Cell Games Gohan, let alone superior, especially when the picture is painted that Goku's burst against Yakon hadn't reached that level and Vegeta realized then and there that he needed Babidi in order to even get to that point. Edited by Pyrus, Aug 31 2013, 09:23 PM.
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Saiyan Femme	Aug 31 2013, 10:36 PM Post #44
Posts: 1,683 Group: Member Member #8,569 Joined: November 17, 2012 Favourite Anime DBZ, Card Captor Sakura, Evangelion Favourite Manga Slam Dunk, Fushigi Yugi, Shaman King	Yusuke Urameshi Aug 31 2013, 08:26 PM Quote: When Vegeta first finds out about the 25th Tournament, he wants in and suggests he might win against Gohan since he had been training hard while Gohan hadn't. The way he words it sounds like he's not completely sure, I don't see why he wouldn't be if he had actually reached or surpassed Kid Gohan SSJ2's power. Even before that moment he comments on Gohan losing condition without any training, he can't possibly think Teen Gohan > Kid Gohan. Vegeta wants in on the tourny so he can (in Vegeta's words) "show that clown Kakorot why he is the Prince of All Saiyans". It has nothing to do with Gohan. Vegeta feels that he can beat Gohan (seeing that he's been training his a* off in the 7 year gap) when he tells him that he has been slacking off. OFG Chapter: 426 (DBZ 232), P4.2-3 Vegeta: “At that time there was a large gap between our powers…But what about now? While you’ve been enjoying peace, I’ve continued to train.” This is the Vegeta statement I was referring to, it's right before Goku contacted them to let them know he would participate in the Tourney, so his interest in participating was specifically about Gohan at first. And this is Vegeta we're talking about, if he was 100% sure he could win (with a power equal or superior to Kid Gohan SSJ2) he would be assuring Gohan he'll own his a*, not just suggesting the possibility. His uncertainty can be easily explained by the fact that Vegeta wasn't exactly sure how much power Gohan had lost, since later when Gohan does show his current power it's clear Vegeta is significantly more powerful.



Kblo247	Sep 1 2013, 01:18 AM Post #45
Posts: 5,234 Group: Member Member #6,870 Joined: October 16, 2011	Saiyan Femme Aug 31 2013, 07:57 PM When Vegeta first finds out about the 25th Tournament, he wants in and suggests he might win against Gohan since he had been training hard while Gohan hadn't. The way he words it sounds like he's not completely sure, I don't see why he wouldn't be if he had actually reached or surpassed Kid Gohan SSJ2's power. Even before that moment he comments on Gohan losing condition without any training, he can't possibly think Teen Gohan > Kid Gohan. Because no one knows Gohans true depth of powers? Goku tells him before he goes to fight Buu he would be unbeatable if he used his emotions again to fuel them. The fact is Gohan displayed multiple different levels of power at Cell. Gohan himself thought he lost half his strength at one point and then when Vegeta blasted Cell, he unleashed a raw amount of power that was out of the world. There's no way for Vegeta or Goku (without ssj3) to know what the hell they would get if they got a miffed Gohan. Vegeta was stronger than the grown up Gohan, and he likely felt he could fight CG Gohan and probably win as long as he didnt ever flip his lid.



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